THE EASY LIFE OF AN ATTRIBUTER

[wavysteps2003]

What a trip, people send you coins to look at, they pay you $3.00 to $5.00 per coin to look at them, say what they are and then send then back. Yup, easy, just a couple of minutes of work.

OR IS IT THAT EASY

Bob Piazza sent me pictures of this wavy step die, not a very strong one, however, one that he attributed from the photos in my file.




He had asked about the possible doubled 7th column that he saw in bay # 6. My response was "What doubled column in bay # 6, I don't see one." Now the fun begins, for Bob P. had matched all the die markers on my pictures to the coin that he had in hand. So, to be sure of what he had, I sent him this picture of the obverse.



And this picture of the reverse.



Yes he replied, those were the same die markers on the reverse on the lower part of the roof, but that was not the obverse. His die did not have the massive die cracks that were in the bust of Lincoln. Also the picture of bay # 6 did not show the doubled column.

Luckily, I had another die of this wavy step and the whole mystery came to little. Look at the next pictures.



Same die markers, a little bit of less intensity to them, but the exact same ones and a bust of Lincoln without the die cracks. Next picture .



There was the extra column in bay # 6, but wait a minute, how could this be a doubled die when it appears so late in the die state. Chuck will love this one for he has had his suspisions that this could happen; it is a die gouge that looks like an extra column. Also the obverse die was changed before this reverse die damage happened.

Four E-mails back and forth, 10 to 15 pictures taken, uploaded, cropped, downladed and another hour or two trying to figure this die out. Yup, it sure was worth all that money.

Hope that I did not sound to sarcastic, just wanted you all to remember that the money spent for attribution is well worth the value for it is you that benifits, not the attributer.

Of course this post also brings to light some of the oddities that can happen, like changing one die but leaving the other in place and also that some things are not exactly what they look to be

You all have a good one.

WAVYSTEPS2003 aka BJ Neff

[Bob P]

Well said BJ... This particular coin may be the exception rather than the rule. It also brings up another valid point of view...especially for the newbies here.
BJs first reply indicated that this was probably a new variety. I didn't think so based on the marker photos on this particular die. I was persistent enough so that he had another look. Had we not determined by the time yesterday was done, that this was the same variety, but with a different obverse, then I probably would have sent him the coin, and he would have figured it out at home.
BJ and I are both attributers, but in reality, each time one of you take the time to research a coin on the site, and is able to positively identify your coin based on pictures and marker info on this or any other site, you have performed an attribution.
When you send a coin to us, not only do we compare it with what is on the site, but sometimes with others that we may have here that are not listed yet. We try to cross reference when possible, take pictures of the variety and markers, and edit all those pictures so that they fit the format we have on the site. Then, we have to load all of those pictures to the site's database, and then add all the die information, including die description, pricing info, maker narratives etc.
As you can see, it can be labor intensive, sometimes taking up to an hour for each die. Sometimes...we really work hard for that $3.
Now you have an idea of why we charge what we do, and how hard it can be. Imagine trying to compare a small column bar to another 400 varieties!
The work you do to help us attribute coins is more help to us that you'll ever know. By letting us know what we need to look at on your coin helps a great deal. Sometimes, the photos we view here can help us save you that $3. Whether we photograph and add your coin to the site or not, we still spend that time trying to attribute your coin. For that reason, attribution fees are normally not refundable.
If you feel we are wrong in our attributions, or may have missed something, be persistent and let us know. We look at hundreds of coins a month at times, and have been known to miss stuff.

[coppercoins]

So THAT'S why BJ hasn't responded to the email for help with a coin I sent earlier this week - Bob has all his attention.

Woo-hoo!! BJ....

[wavysteps2003]

Hello Chuck - Scratch head, trying to think of the coin that you sent. The last one was the 1986-D wavy step, which I have designated 1986-D, WSDDR-001 (see post 29 Oct. > new finds) and e-mailed you of the analysis. Then there was the 1972 new DDO that we discussed and I can't think of any other Chuck. Please let me know if I spaced out something else, LOL.

BJ

PS - Chuck, there might be one other possibility and that is that I have not gotten it yet. It seems that the mail system down here has an affinity for acting like molasses, slow in the summer and super slow in the winter.

[coop]

EASY LIFE?
Going through a roll of tubed/BU Cents you can sort according to markers. If the markers are strong enough, then they last through one/several die states. But when they come and go, it makes searching/attributing a lot harder. Keeping in mind the various avenues dies travel through with wear/clashes/die cracks-chips-breaks-cuds/ cleanings, you have to consider these in when attributing coins made from the same dies. So here is to: Finding coins with the largest seperations (RPMs & DD's) and the best markers that last the life of the coin that you can find. The minor stuff, well that is were the easy life goes south. I save all minors for now, but know they may never be listed. But what about the future generations. They might be valuable to them, or just minor stuff an old collector saved from a life of circulation oblivion. So till they are listed, I'll probably out what? A few Cents. Let them go and you may possibly never see them again.
Easy Life? Only when you are riding upwind from a skunk.

[Dick]

Coop, I know OH SO WELL how that goes. One should try down-wind from a skunk! Now that's living, (the hard way)!
BJ, I learned more today, than I had learned for the last year! Too bad I hadn't been a member of this forum, THEN! I would have known what I was not asking, etc, when I sent coin to ANACS for "atribuition" Hell, I never heard of that word before! I could have saved $30.00!
Chuck, I need your PayPal address, so I can send you an echeck, for your book. my email: azbrushape@aol.com
I want the second ED., before it is all gone, and have to wait for the 3rd ED. 8-(
While I am here, do we list MAD's? I mean the ones that are only 2-3% mis-aligned. I will post some "very mad's", at a later date, (once I get control of my camera, and computer, at the same time!) CD, do you remove the eye piece to take your photos via the 'scope?
Dick

[Gabe]

Oh, the life on an attributer must be a nightmare.

I have attributed coins before, but all have been coins I have found in circulation or in BU ROlls. It can take forever to attribute one RPM, and Im sure that it takes hours to just get through a batch of coins.

THANK YOU ALL COPPERCOINS.COM ATTRIBUTERS!

[Bob P]

Dick,
We do not list misaligned dies (MADs). because they are not varieties. Varieties occur in the hubbing process whereas MADs, off centers, strikethroughs etc. are made in the striking process to include the initial setup of the dies. This is where knowing the difference between varieties and errors is crucial.

[Dick]

Hi Bob, yeah, I figured as much, but thought I would ask. I have them in several denomonations, and from several countries. I like to collect die cracks, all kinds, and sizes. They make nice Progressive slide show material. Once I get my "photography" down pat, I'll put some of them up for viewing, thru links. I'm still finding things about my camcorder, and scope, too for that matter, that sure surprised me. I had a shot on the monitor, and was going to check the size, or somrthing, and "grabbed" the image with the mouse, and pulled it! That was the last thing I expected. I seldom ask for "live help". I tend to do my own "trouble-shooting", and so I learn the "arts" the same way. Nothing against anyone, just a fluke, I guess. My biggest problem seems to get the focus. I have some jigs that I built for that, and , altho it is "Mickey Mouse", it does work, (for the VERY small details). Not too well on full-face shots, tho.
BYW, Bob, Can you help me out, here? I need CD's PayPAl address, so I can send him the money (Echeck) for the 2nd ED. Maybe I'll get it before the third ED. comes out! As you know, there is a check for $28.00, floating around, somewhere, and it has never been negociated. It was made out the 24th of October, and is , (as of yestersday, still outstanding). It was made out to "CD". but I don't where it was sent!!! Can you check into it for me? THanks,
Dick

[coppercoins]

Hi Dick,

My Paypal address is the same as my email, cd@coppercoins.com

As of yet I still have not received a check, so I am clueless as to where it could have gone. Sorry.

Misaligned dies are a minor and common error, not a variety, as Bob has already pointed out. Listing them would be impossible since one coin struck with the die pair could be completely normal, while another coin struck with the same die pair could be a misaligned die. Impossible to track. Misaligned die strikes are a striking error - the only sort of error that is catalogable is die errors such as CUDs. The rest are a coin to coin occurrence.

[Dick]

CD, thanks for the info,. I suspected that would be the case, but unless I ask, I can never be sure! About the check, I am going to let it "fly", for another 30 days, and if it does get there, or in your hands, donate it to the site. If it doesn't show, by then, I will notify the bank to void the check, if not negociated by that time. Sure makes a "head-scratcher" doesn't it?
Dick

[coop]

The dumbest question is the one never asked. Advancement in knowledge of varities never progresses. When someone asks a question, it is no only the person who asks the question gets the answer. All who read it will then know and those who in the future who read will also continued to be enlightened.