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 coopExpert Member
Posts: 3402
Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Location: Arizona
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 Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:10 am |
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While searching through some roll of 1967 plain cents I found something real unusual.
http://image.inkfrog.com/pix/coop49/000Whatz_This_OBV.jpg
At first glance I thought it was two coins squashed together in a vise leaving a ring on the obverse of the CENT. But after closer examination if appears that the ARC line across obverse was made first then struck later. Check out the Date.
http://image.inkfrog.com/pix/coop49/000Whatz_This_DATE.jpg
If the squashing method of a vise was true, then why is the 6 in the lower part of the lower area perfectly formed? It would have had to been struck after the lower area was made. You can even see in some areas the die flow of the metal has a ridge where it went just so far.
http://image.inkfrog.com/pix/coop49/000Whatz_This_Shoulder.jpg
Also an area left of the date that is lower and a ridge on the chin.
http://image.inkfrog.com/pix/coop49/000Whatz_This_Chin.jpg
What it is for sure, I'm not sure. But it appears interesting. I don't collect errors, but I know others do. So I thought I would include it in this section. The planchet is also bent, so what is it?  I guess it must be an imperfect planchet.
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Richard S. Cooper
You may be only one person in the world, but you may also be the world to one person.
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 coppercoinsSite Admin
Posts: 2809
Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Location: Springfield, Missouri.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2003 4:26 pm |
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Got me stumped, but I can tell you that it does not appear to be a post-mint thing - it looks to me like it was done at the mint.
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C. D. Daughtrey
owner, developer
www.coppercoins.com
cd@coppercoins.com
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GabeSenior Member
Posts: 691
Joined: 11 Jul 2003
Location: Gainesville, FL
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:15 pm |
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Could it be an incomplete clip?
The coin has an incomeplete clip. This happens when a coin struck in a planchet which was punched from a strip of coin metal, the punch overlapping a partially curved punch mark which failed to completely penetrate or shear the planchet, showing on the struk coin as a indented curved line on both sides of the coin, partially closed by the metal flows.
This is right out of The Official Price Guide to Mint Errors. I dont know if Coop's coin shows the strange mark in the reverse, but it does, it certanly is an incomplete clip and if it doesnt have the mark in the reverse.... its anyone guess..
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-Gabe
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coopExpert Member
Posts: 3402
Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 2:03 pm |
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Gabe: The reverse is unmarked, does looks real mushy on the EPU. I'll have to get an image of that if anyone is interested. Looks like a partial stike during the set up process or after set up process was completed as part of the arc intersects on one spot on the rim leaving a gap.
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Richard S. Cooper
You may be only one person in the world, but you may also be the world to one person.
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coppercoinsSite Admin
Posts: 2809
Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Location: Springfield, Missouri.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 7:07 pm |
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I don't believe a partial strike would cause that - the dies do not have rims that would make an indentation like the one you have. The only thing I can think of is that it was partially struck through a planchet or another struck coin before being struck completely.
I'll forward the thread to Rich Schemmer and ask him. He's good at picking these things out.
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C. D. Daughtrey
owner, developer
www.coppercoins.com
cd@coppercoins.com
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mikediamondAdvanced Member
Posts: 191
Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Location: Western Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 7:12 pm |
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Hi. Jason Taylor invited me to join this group and respond to this query.
If the planchet is bent, this would indicate the crescentic groove was generated after the strike. I notice that where the groove overlaps the "9", it is flattened along its outer curve. I have seen other undoubted fakes and altered coins in which the normal design elements are not much affected by subsequent application of a fake die or other device. I don't know how it's done, but I've seen fake multiple strikes and fake counterclashes in which the extra images are largely or completely confined to the field.
In addition to the bend in the planchet, here's what else you should check:
1. Is the planchet out-of-round? Check this with a micrometer accurate to the nearest 0.001mm. If it is out-of-round by more than a few hundredths of a millimeter, this would indicate alteration/damage after the strike.
2. Is the design flattened at all on the reverse directly opposite the crescentic groove? Any such flattening would indicate an alteration.
3. Is the smooth circular outline of the edge at all interrupted where the curved groove intersects it? That would also indicate alteration after the strike.
--Mike Diamond
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President of CONECA; Host of Error Coin Information Exchange (Yahoo:Groups). Opinions rendered do not necessarily reflect those held by any organization I am a member of.
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 RobertSenior Member
Posts: 896
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 7:13 pm |
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could that be some kind of strike-thru  ?
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mikediamondAdvanced Member
Posts: 191
Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Location: Western Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 7:58 pm |
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| Robert wrote: |
| could that be some kind of strike-thru ? |
No. A strike-thru error would not create a bend in the coin. It would also be expected to seriously interfere with the design elements it crosses.
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President of CONECA; Host of Error Coin Information Exchange (Yahoo:Groups). Opinions rendered do not necessarily reflect those held by any organization I am a member of.
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coppercoinsSite Admin
Posts: 2809
Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Location: Springfield, Missouri.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 10:10 am |
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Rich Schemmer responded:
I still think its some type of post strike damage, whether the "6" is fully formed in the center of the line or not , the outer edges of the numbers still received contact which proves it happened after the strike. Also the line extends in to the rim another area formed by the strike. It's odd but most of the evidence points to post strike damage, if the a incuse wheel like object rolled over this area it would produce a similar mark or a steel rimmed out edge tool with a softer in core.. many possibilities..
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C. D. Daughtrey
owner, developer
www.coppercoins.com
cd@coppercoins.com
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coopExpert Member
Posts: 3402
Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:12 am |
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Thanks for your consideration guys. I found it in a tubed roll of Cents and not a Bank rolled one so I can't say that no one has tampered with it. I will set it aside to see if anyone is interested in it later on. Still have a couple more rolls of 1967 Cents to check out yet. Maybe I'll find another one? But I appreciate everyones' comments.
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Richard S. Cooper
You may be only one person in the world, but you may also be the world to one person.
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