What do you think a collectable DDO variety is?

[eagames]

Just asking the touchy question of what makes a variety collectable? I'm asking about hub DDOs not RPMs. I'm not asking what's listable, just asking what others think are collectable. I hope to hear opinions even though they might be different. I'll start it with my thoughts

4 Questions to ponder:

1) How small can it be?
My opinion:
Must be class 1 through 9 hub doubling and be fairly easy to see at 10X. For the modern class 9 ones it should be big or also have some notching. I need to think it's worth attribution and that someone else would want it for atleast the attribution fee if it was in a holder in an auction.

2) How many can there be for each year?
My opinion:
If there's more than a dozen and they're minor they get very boring, I might save a few I find but beyond the best dozen types (like the quarters or 06-P cents) the rest are too boring. I'd increase the number if I ever saw more than a dozen nice DDOs for a year but haven't seen that yet. I think the 06-P cents were a great example and this site did a great job, they only listed the best ones instead of listing all of the maybe 100 types out there. I think the quarters are out of control, too many minor ones are being given attributions. They're a trap for new collectors that think they'll all have future value.

3) How about extra bars?
My opinion:
Only if it has design details like the extra columns on 94 ddr-1 or even a normal partial bar as long as it also has something else like the statue doubled. Maybe just a long bar.

4) How about wavy steps or trails?
My opinion:
The best ones are collectable but not as DDOs unless they also have other hub doubling, they're something else. Grading companies won't attribute them as DDOs unless they have other hub doubling.

Summary, to me the biggest few hundred best hub doubled DDOs (of all lincoln cents) are greatly collectable and worthy of effort to find or get them and of grading/attribution. The next few hundred should be documented and put in a flip. Beyond that I might save them if I find them but not go overboard.

[Dick]

ED, I may be the first to answer your questions, but I'm sure I won't be the last!
Your first question: HOW SMALL CAN IT BE?
I believe you have put it rather clearly

Your second one: HOW MANY FOR EACH YEAR?
It depends on the variety.
If it is readily seen with 10X magnification, fine It is a keeper.
It has gotten to be a ridiculous thing when every tiny, miniscule pin-point is recognized! MN quarters arre a good example. I dion't say "don't collect them", if that is your "cup of tea", but there is a point that we should accept as "enough, already"! 90 % of us do not, or would not try to "get every tiny little mis-placed dot, regardless of "how it got there".

Your third question: HOW MANY EXTRA BARS?
Personally, I would like to see a more clear picture of the "bars", the place they are occurribg, and the reason for their "movement". There are so many different ways they shoe, either wholly, or partially, that it is, (to me) confusing, because they are not always there, or at least in the same position. I have checked a LOT of cents, "young, and old"
for the "bars" situation, and in a short time had a large bowl full of them, so it isn't as though they are a rarity. Maybe if we limit them to the enclosure with the statue.

And for your fourth: HOW ABOUT WAVY-STEPS AND/OR
TRAILS?
I have a wavy steps cent that I was sent, and I, (possibly because of my eyes/medications), am not able to determine "who is on first". I have a medicine cup that I have filled with the "SAME INDICATIONS, as are on the cent, to be set aside for future reference. (This from one box of cents from the bank). I may "still" not know what I am looking at/for! I have seen some of the "trails" type markings on the edges, close to the rim, in the same area as the lettering, but have not clearly accepted that they are the same. As for the other areas, I have not seen any, to date, other than in photos.
Ed, I appreciate what you are attempting, and agree with you. There should be a "cut-off" point in the varieties that are made "Public, and Notorious", in all denominations!
Dick

[Russellhome]

I think this is the toughest part of the hobby -- to know how to draw the line between "what's in" and "what's out".

Personally, I lean to the more liberal side of the argument. I think that if it can be seen, photographed, and clearly distinguished from other die varieties that may be very similar, then it should be listed as a known variety. If it can be seen, hobbyists will continue to find them and send them in for attribution if they can't identify it to a file type.

The estimated value for very minor die varieties should be very low at first -- and then collector interest will determine how 'collectable' a variety is. I also like the idea of having expert ranking of die varieties (like the star system here) so that people can easily distinguish more significant varieties from the rest.

With the 2006 cents, 2005 MN quarters and now the Ocean in View nickels - it appears there will be 100+ varieties identified. It seems that it would make sense to set a higher bar for any year/denomination/mint that has an abnormally high number of varieties -- vs. others that have very few items listed for the year/denomination/mint. But that would be a double standard and complicate matters even more. I have seen a few MN 25c and OIV 5c DDRs that I thought were too minor to list -- only to have them appear as listed varieties when someone else sent them in. I wouldn't buy them (or even sell them unless they were part of a larger lot). It appears that just about everything visible is getting listed -- and though very minor in many cases, I don't have a problem with it.

But on the other hand, I'm not the one having to photo and list all of this minor stuff. If I did - my opinion on the subject may be different.

[Bob P]

Some interesting points of view here. Of course, collecting is very subjective. It all comes down to the criteria you set for yourself. Why should someone else's collecting habits be yours also?
For me personally....I collect everything that is considered a die variety. Major, minor, rare, scarce, etc. However, when I attribute varieties and put them on the web site, the criteria changes based on what Chuck wants on his site. Does that mean that I will neglect something because it can't go on the site? Absolutely NOT!
I really think folks are getting sidetracked by what OTHERS think. Once you start doing that, you fall into the category of a follower who relies on others to do their thinking for them.
You should make up your mind on what you want to collect, how major or minor you want to establish the threshold at, and in what numbers you want to collect them in.
Wavy steps are not considered doubled dies, but are still a traceable variety that can be attributed to a specific die. If I can see a wave in the steps, then I collect it. Maybe you only want to collect ones that are moderate to strong? Then do that. Make your collection what you want, not what others have.

[rollmeupabe]

Here's my two cents. If I find it a struggle to identify the variety and authenticate then it is too minor for me to kill my time on. For example, I have struggled to figure out the wavy steps and decided to pass looking for them since there are so many other varieties to search for that I find it easier to identify. I personally don't care how many there are for a particular year as long as they are fun to search for and identify. RPMs from 1960 and 1961 are good examples of this. Relatively easy to see, available in great grades, and fun to authenticate with the help of coppercoins.com photos. As Bob said in his response, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[wavysteps2003]

Just a thought - Collecting vaieties can be approched in more than a few directions. A person can collect all of one type variety, such as RPMs and amass a very large collection that will take considerable time and money to try and complete. A person can try to collect varieties from a certain year, for example all the RPMs for the 1960 coinage over even still, break it down to just one denomination. Another interesting collection is to try and put the top 100 of a certain variety togther. THat is the nice thing about collecting, you can set your own concept of what you want to collect.

People like myself, who are doing research on a type variety, will collect all that they can of that type. THat is the main reason behind my large collection of wavy step / trail dies. Otherwise, I am trying to collect the top 100 RPMs (CONECA & NACDD lists) and I also have a modest collection of DDOs. Just recently, I was offered a chance to start a collection of the Minnesota doubled dies from a good friend who was going to give me quite a few. Since my interests are in a different direction, I passed up his kind offer.

What it all boils down to is this; collect what fancies you, trying not to put a vaule on what you collect, but value your ability of puting such a collection of your choice together.

BJ Neff

[Dick]

Bob, BJ, Merry Christmas o you both, and if you are as full as I, then you are pretty full!
Now to the hobby. I never heard of a "wavy-steps", or trails", until I joined the forum. My efforts had, and still are collecting, (gathering) die cracks, and breaks, all kinds, all denominations, (that I have on hand), Rpm's DDO's, DDR's, etc. Things that most people check for. The MN scenario, and now, some others, is getting out of hand, and frankly, I could care less about a tree "stuck in the wrong place,", because of all that I have checked, none have been found. Maybe i am on the wrong seaboard, but I won't move. I go thru box, after box of quarters, and find plating errors, and those I keep, too. But, there has to be a limit to what one is trying to collect, (unless one is planning on writing a catalog of varieties, Wavy-steps, trees, bars,, and maybe even bubbles (if the zinc cents stay around much longer. Most of those I see, are beginining to do what has been referred to as "self destruct"! The bad part of it seems to be that it is spreading to the other coinage, and then what are going to do? My "collection", if you want to call it that is composed of a lot of the "P", and "D" mint quarters, an album of silver eagles, minus the "W", and a ton of wheats, (that will go into albums, just to get rid of soe boxes, cans bottles, and even bucket, (one). Not a lot of anything else, but a lot overall.I think my most valuable coin is possibly a 1931-S, VF40, maybe. Oh yes, My GOLD quarters! They are worth 25cents each, and I keep them in a safe deposit box, away from the "good stuff"!
Dick