CHUCK'S BOOK

bruce 1947 · Advanced Member

In Chuck's book on page 315 he talks about the positioning of the designer's initials which are notably different between the two styles is he saying that on some 98,99,and 2000 cents that the initials might be in the same position as the 1993 on some of these other cents.
Bruce.

coppercoins · Site Admin

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking, but I will try to answer...

The wide-AM design, normal through 1992 on business strike cents and on all proofs except 1993, has initials closer to the base of the building than the close-AM design. The G of the initials on the wide-AM design also shows a crosslet serif, while the G on the close-AM does not. And, of course, the obvious attribute is that there is a noticeable gap between the A and M of AMERICA.

The close-AM design is normal on all business strikes 1993 to date and on 1993 proof cents. This is the design where the A and M of AMERICA touch at their base.

Any coin found that does not match up with the proper reverse style is a collectible treasure. Most common would be the wide-AM 2000 cents. Up to a dozen different dies created many hundreds of thousands of these. They are typically $5 or so in BU grades.

The scarcer items that are known to exist:

1992P close-AM : 1 known, no sales known.
1992D close-AM : 3-4 known, worth thousands in BU.
1998P wide-AM : hundreds known, worth $20-$50 in BU.
1998S proof close-AM : A dozen or so known. $500 or so.
1999P wide-AM : Around a hundred known, worth $200-$500 in BU.
1999S close-AM : A dozen or so known. $500 or so.
2000P wide-AM : thousands known, $5-$10 in BU.

Possible extant dates that are unconfirmed:

1996P wide-AM
1997P wide-AM

eagames · Expert Member

On the 1998, 1999, 2000 with the proof reverse with the wide AM the FG is also in the same position as the proofs because those were made with the proof reverse. The proof reverse has the wide AM gap and FG is closer to the building, the bussiness strikes have the smaller gap and the FG is not as close to the building.

See Ken Potters link, he has good pictures of it:
http://koinpro.tripod.com/Articles/_Ty-2_Reverse_Cent_Varieties.htm

To summarize, here are the ones I know of assuming no new types exist that I've never seen, let me know if anyone knows of any new types:

92 and earlier proof and bussiness strikes are supposed to be wide. (the only rare one is the bussiness strike close 92-d made by mistake)

93 proof and normal are are supposed to be close. (never heard of a wide one)

94-06 proof are supposed to be wide (the rare ones are proof 99 and 98 that by mistake are close)

93-06 non proof are supposed to be close (the rare ones are 98, 99, 00 that by mistake are wide)

eagames · Expert Member

Wow Chuck, ya beat me ; )

Earwig · Veteran Member

Didnt i hear somewhere that some1 found a 94d wide AM coulda swore thats why the bu roll price spiked awhile back.

Eric

eagames · Expert Member

I think theres been some false alarms, some people see a small gap between AM and jump with glee before they look at the FG position.

I did not know there was a 92-P close variety until I saw what CD just wrote.

My funny story was one day I looked at the one 93-S proof I had and saw it was close, I got excited since all the surrounding year proofs are wide. Then I realized 93-S proof is the odd one where both are close. Laughing

Earwig · Veteran Member

Rumors look what it did to the tennessee p rolls lol they were goin for 50 bucks at 1 point

Eric

bruce 1947 · Advanced Member

Chuck,
I am sorry, I thought you were saying in your book that in business strikes if the FG was close to the base like the proofs, then that would be something to look for as having more of a premium sorry I did not make myself more clear however I do understand what you are saying now thanks.
Bruce.

coppercoins · Site Admin

Two additional things on this story:

1. You never know what could surface that isn't known to date. Every time - EVERY TIME - I go through circ cents, I separate the 92 and earlier coins from the 93 and later coins to look through them, that way when I turn them over and look at the reverses I'm not confused as to what I should be looking at. So far I have not found one single example of a mismatched reverse in circulation...and I have only found one single 2000P wide-AM reverse cent at a show in a dealer's stock. Never have I found anything else, but that doesn't mean I won't.

2. There is still no evidence whatsoever that the mismatched type reverses were struck with proof dies. In fact, all evidence points against that possibility. NONE of the coins examined have any cameo, nor do they have the sharper details found on proof cents. It is much more likely that the process began with the master hubs, and using the wrong ones to create working hubs and dies. Same thing with the incorrect reverse proof coins, unless 1993 reverses were brought back out and accidentally used in 1998 and 1999.

Bottom line - the 1992, 1998, 1999, and 2000 improper design coins are NOT proof reverse dies. Exactly how they were created remains a mystery (and always will) but from all accounts they appear to be normal business strike dies with the wrong design.

bruce 1947 · Advanced Member

Chuck,
When I got my microscope at Christmas I started searching cents I have now went through over 300 rolls of cents. And I think what I am doing is looking at so many cents for so long that I'm seeing things that are just not there or questioning everything that looks odd. Then when I look up a year in your book and misinterpret what you are saying I become more confused I will have to work on that.
Bruce.

coppercoins · Site Admin

Even with the knowledge and experience I have at looking through these coins I still only find one decent coin out of a 50 roll box on average. This is why we collect them, and why there is a market for them...because they are scarce and are difficult to find. If we found one in each roll they probably wouldn't be worth collecting.

I have been looking for a 1983 DDR cent since they were first announced in 1983. I still haven't found one, and I have been through close to a half million cents since then. Two things are absolutely necessary to be a die variety hunter...source material and a hell of a lot of patience. Knowledge helps but is only a minor necessity. Memorizing every anomaly isn't necessary if you look at everything that crosses your desk. With time and experience anyone can recognize what's not 'normal' and focus on the things they find that are anomalous.