Die Clash

Steven · Expert Member

Dick, an overlay, I feel would be specific to a specific coin being worked with. There are too many variations to take into consideration to get them all. Or at least in my lifetime. One very important variation would be die rotation. If the coin is not photographed occording to the rotation the clashes will not match. Another would be misaligned dies. It goes on and on and on. I believe if there is a particular coin in question the best way would be to address it individually with overlays of photos from that coin.

OR could I be wrong,,,,,That has happened before Confused

Steven

Dick · Expert Member

Steven, I agree with you whole-heartedly! My point is that when working with a particular coin, it should also have the same date, and mint as references. the reasoning, as I mentioned before is the changes that have been made, over the years. One of my clashes has the nose in the "bay" area, while another overlay, like the 2000P above has it outside the area. Therein lies my argumentation.
Dick

Steven · Expert Member

Dick, Here is another I was playing with to see what I could identify as clash marks. I could see the RTY of Liberty but when I did the overlay I could identify part of the 1 in the date above the building. Just looking at the coin I could not tell that it was rotated but when I did the overlay I had to rotate the reverse 4 degrees counter clockwise to match the clashing then move the reverse photo to the S/E a bit before combining the layers.

Dick · Expert Member

Steven, I'll finish answering, after I have my dinner....Nice overlay. I didn't see the date, but would have bet it was an '80's cent. Then I saw the date, and confirmed. Did you notice on the top area, what looks like a "reised ridge ring" in the area of United States oF America? Especially in the "D States oF A". THat is the base of the bust, and I'll bet I am not the only one who mis-took it for a raised ridge ring.
Between the Jacket, collar, and Chin/beard, depending on the year, is where I have found the marks that I thought were clash lines.
I just installed my PHotoshop 7.0, and tried to see what I could do. Result? Nothing, yet! Boy, is Coop going to get "hammered"! I already have a million questions, and I'm still on the first page!
Dick

coop · Expert Member

Dick: Make sure and ask the questions from the photography section. that way all others having the same question can find it easier that way.

Dick · Expert Member

Coop, just be prepared! I have taken on a chore, (overlays), and guess who I'm going to be seeking out, at all hours of the day, and night? (I never sleep)! Well not before 1, or 2 AM.
BTW, I will be posting my photo questions, and results in the photography section, SIR!
Dick

coop · Expert Member

Great because I'm guilty of changing the subject mainstream. The reason that is bad is for someone to try to find it later. So keep one subject is better for searching.

Dick · Expert Member

OK COOP, Lets jump into the photography section
Dick

coppercoins · Site Admin

Dick's coin is not a die clash. It is the result of a die gouge or something that damaged the die.

Dick · Expert Member

Thanks, Chuck! I had Abe looking the other way, and even if he had been, it still wouldn't have been within reach. I looked at the overlay that Steven, I belisve, posted, and my coin don't come close. Thanks again. Now i can take that one and recycle it!
Dick

eagames · Expert Member

Here's one listed on ebay as a die clash that has wheat lines on his shoulder. Seems like it would need to be rotated plus need to demolish the fields before it could clash into the portrait. I'm not saying it's faked just that it seems like it might be die damage from something other than a clash. The same seller listed others and got about the price of a normal 31-P. Just wondering what others think, would clash there be possible? Is it a clash or other damage?

http://cgi.ebay.com/1931-LINCOLN-CENT-MS-63-RED-DIE-CLASH-ERROR-STRIKE_W0QQitemZ230098343730QQihZ013QQcategoryZ139804QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Steven · Expert Member

In my feeble opinion if it is clashed and if those are wheat lines, it looks to have been clashed (smashed) against another wheat cent.
AMD.

Steven

eagames · Expert Member

The seller has several listed and they look the same. That's why I thought die damage.

For $9.99 a normal undamaged 31-P unc is not a bad deal.

Steven · Expert Member

Ed,
If you look at the rim you will see damage (flattening) there as well. Looks to be a hammer job to me to some otherwise good looking coins. The 1920 looks nice.

I would like to here some other opinions about the clash claim though.

Steven

garylcsr · Veteran Member

i don't see the clash either. it could get into the face as far as i know. (i have not seen one though). i wish he has as many "good" photos of it as he do's the 20. either way 10.00 for a 31 P is not bad. but i would buy the coin not the clash but that finger print on it wouldn't look good in my set.
Gary