How long until the die broke?

[Rhubarb]

Bob,

I'm still slightly confused. If a die goes thru stage's then where is the line that changes a certain Die into a different Die state. You posted that a Die has marker's, does this dictate the change in "Die State". I hope I asked the right question.

David

[eagames]

David,

Here's my reasoning:

Like Bob said the states are early, mid, late (EDS MDS LDS) but some people break it down further but those are the real states. Think of then as EDS-new, MDS-during its life, EDS-end of life.

Then stages are within the states... so whenever something appears that was not there before that would be a stage. So you might have a coin in MDS but it has nothing but normal die wear then while still in MDS it gets a tiny crack so a coin with that new crack is a different stage... then the die ages and becomes LDS and maybe later it gets harshly polished so it has heavy polishing lines so theres another stage of LDS. If nothing appears except normal wear there might only be one stage in a state. People document the states then if changes appear within the states they document the stages.

A die progesses through life, prgression is seeing the change in the die state or even stages. Often people use the term progression wrong, for example they find off center coins with different amounts off center and call that progression but in reality off center has nothing to do with progressin and those off centers can be made in any order... it's not related to die wear over time.

Maybe someone will add to this

[eagames]

just adding...

You asked about the line between them.

Just a rough way to see it (since I'm often wrong in determining states)

EDS die makes coins with sharper lettering, where details meet the flat fields it's a sharp angle.

MDS might still make nice detail but the elements sort of get mushy where they meet the fields.

LDS might be more mushy, it might show signs of failing like bad cracks or the design is getting polished away.

I'm sure someone can add to this one

[Rhubarb]

Ed,

I do understan layman's term's. Thank's.

It is hard to understand each and everyon's perspective, thought's and the way they percieve a "Die" in "Stages" and State. I'm just trying to learn. I started by looking at the coin's matching them to the picture's, then I have seen that if a MM has marker's it must be that one, each and every coin has a different look, marker, position,....... I still love this hobby, but it is very confusing, but interesting. I do hope that everyone here understand's my confusion. I'm only trying to improve my knowledge and everyone here's knowledge on this Hobby.


David

[coop]

Each coin minted from a die progresses to break down with use. The die states are progressive, but not exact as each coin wears a little more on the die, die clashes happen, die cracks/chips/breaks appear. Each die goes through this progression. Exactly at the same rate? No, some make it through all die states, others are retired earily as they broke and formed a cud, or just wore out. The mint's job is to make money (Pun intended). They use the dies as long as they can squeezing every Cents worth from each die. (Pun intended) Because they do this you can find dies from the same/different die states in a roll. Some make it to retirement with the same original matched dies. Others have a different die matched to continue the use of the good die. So I guess the best illustration is this:

What age is a child? What age is middle age? What age is old age? Because life is a progression, the same is true with dies. We can find markers that identify different die states, but each coin made from a die is progressive. (I like to compare the coin I'm looking at to see if my coin is earlier than the examples in images or it was made later. Just something I like to do.) As in the case of different dies matched till retirement, it like couples who stay together for years, others move on to a new mate. Same true with dies. The same pair may/may not stay together. Sometimes a good one gets saved and match with another one with the similiar/different/new die. Just like life, things progress and move on.

[garylcsr]

wow Coop you picked me out of the die state very fast lol. I'm the one that moved on lol ask any of my ex wives lol
Gary

[coop]

Gary: You do know why divorces are so expensive?

Cause there worth it!

[garylcsr]

lol good one Coop.you are going to get us both in trouble here lol. so i will take the 5th.
Gary

[coop]

Good I'll meet you in the alley and we can share the fifth! I prefer Brandy or Whiskey. Great for the scratchy/parched throat that we get from the polution here....