Possibly 1942S-1MM-003

[Rhubarb]

The MM doesn't have the extra marking's that CC has. The only sign that it is the 003 is the split serif. Any suggestion's.

Please excuse my wide pictures.


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[Jack]

The Mint Mark location on your coin is some what higher and west of number 03 on the site.
Jack

[Jack]

[Jack]

[Rhubarb]

Thank's Jack,

Are you using Autocad? That is a great example.

David

[coop]

You will find several coins each year with the lower serif with a split. In searching for coins the how RPM needs to be address first. Separation. Compare your coin with 003 and you will see the separation on the upper serif has a verical separation and a mark on the central east side. So considering the whole RPM rather than just part of the RPM, would make looking for the location unecessary. With out the proper separation this could not be from the same die. So the scond step of finding location would be unecessary as well as looking for markers. Some RPMs separation is enhanced/larger on later die states than from EDS examples and others get smaller or loose the second markings with age. So looking at the first step, searching the whole MM might save time trying to determine what location and what markers match a certain die. I guess an example would be is this:
I you were just looking at a tail fin on a car from the 50's and assume it its 1957 Chevy you could be short sighted. A lot of cars from that era had tail fins. So examining the whole vehicle to see what the rest of the car looks like, then you know that you have a 1957 Chevy. So when we mention looking at the whole RPM, you can learn more of the separation. With just a split in the lower serif, that would make this coin a tilted punching. But on 003 there is a lot more going on. When you look at the East side of the coin, there is a S/S/S Northeast & tilted. Thus the coin from this die has three separate punchings. On the coin you were compairing it to there is only a minor two punch separation on the lower serif. So looking at the total RPM, we should have seen that no matter what location, no matter what markers, these two coins could not have came from the same die. Sometimes seeing the whole picture first save time and research. But this is how we learn. You find something like this and realise I was shorted sighted not seeing the full third punching. So what do we do? We take this information and grow from there. Even if we do something wrong the first time, an experienced man/woman grows from what they have learned from that point forward.

[Rhubarb]

Coop,

Good explanation. It seem's that I have fallen into the trap of looking and not reading. The S/S/S is a tale tale sign.

If I may ask, When a die is punching a coin any coin during the wheat era, let's use this coin as a example. Over a period of time the die become's loose from the shaft that is pushing the die, If the earlier coin produced a S/S and with the Rotation or Tilting of the die produced a different looking coin S/S/S , how is one to tell the difference in the 2 other than MM location and Marker's. (I hope that made sense)

David

[coop]

The repunching of the mintmarks are done in the preperation of the die. The coin has been hubbed to form this die (Multiple times as done then) the die is ready for Philly mint coin. But this one is a San Francisco Minted coin. So they add the punching necessary to get the width and depth with a hammer and punch. When this is complete they examine and see if it meets their expectations. After minting a few coins they are inspected to see if look correct. But with the multiple punchings there seem to be an offset punch or two that has some separation between the punchings. These are the ones we are looking for. The strong the separation between punches, the more noticable they numerous punches appear if they are separated. So when a die strike Cents, the same RPM will be punched from first coin till the last. True the die will wear/enhance/remove some of the RPM. But usually you can identify coins made from this die. If there was something with a different punching pattern, then that would be from a different die. Different separtions, different locations and different markers is what helps identify one coin made from a perticular die. For the greatest part, the coins are from dies that are normal. Thus no separation, no need to check for location or markers cause they don't match die that made the die that has been numbered. So it is not from the machine that turns S/S coin into a S/S/S. It is the initial punchings of the die that makes coins with separations of the punches to make RPM varieties. Not the machine. The dies were made that way Each coin made from it will have the same markings. (Excluding wear)
We are working backward thry to match the coins we find back to a die that lists the stronger RPMs. Some RPMs are too minor to list, but they may be by some attributors. But here at coppercoins, we try to stick to the middle ground and list the interesting one that we spot with medium separation. Hope this helps David. If not, fire away.

[Dick]

Gentlemen, I read your posts, with great interest, and enjoyment! I was tempted to comment that the MM's used to be "hand-set", but Coop very aptly covered that fact. I was even more interested in the "triangulation" used in the upper photos.I hadn't considered that an option, (not that I know how to use AutoCAd), but the very act of the triangulation, will very closely place the MM's on two or more, separate coins. Most enlightening! This is a GOOD day!
One might say that I use the same thought, to determint the sizes of the '60's, 70's, and other differences, but by also putting a view on the TV screen, and marking the outline with a grease pencil. Works every time!
Dick

[Rhubarb]

Dick, your funny. Send me a grease pencil, I like your thinking. I do beleive Jack is using AutoCad, the reason being his triangulation of the line's. From one point to another. I have a Copy at work, I think I will try to implement that on finding the right MM location.

David

[Dick]

David, I have CD with some pretty elaborate "stuff" on it, you know, like being able to draw a picture, and then get a 3-D view, and rotate it to see how it "looks from behind", BUT, It like 90% of the Programming I have available, I don't know how to use. I build my own computers with what ever I want in them, but I am essencially "computer illiterate", and this is one of the reasons I have problems with Photoshop, and any other Photo apps. Just a "country boy", with smart hands. I can go into your Machine shop, and tear down the Cincinnatti-over-arm milling machine, and put it back together, ( as I had to do with one BASKET case). Sans service manual! BUT I can't get a good grasp of something simple like taking a photo, and then making an overlay!!! SHEEEZZZ!
Tell you what, You try out the one you mentioned, and when we all go to "use Rock's new scope, you can show us how to use the AutoCad. Just be sure to take a lunch, too. I usually only take one sandwich.
Dick

[Bob P]

Wow, that is real fancy with the lines and all that to triangulate the mintmark position. I tried to do that too, and here is what I came up with. Think I need to practice a bit more??

[Dick]

There's that darn fishing net!
Dick

[Rhubarb]

Bob,

Where is Point A vs Point B? Dick, I don't think it will hold minnow's. Maybe it's a program inside photoshop???????

David

[Jack]

Bob David and Dick I use the program provided with my Windows XP "Windows Pictures and Fax Viewer" from any folder I put pictures in.
1. In the folder, click on the picture you want to work with and
it will take you to "windows picture and fax viewer". From
menu bar, select the icon "close program and open for edit-
ing".
2. From the new screen, same picture, from the menu bar, se-
lect "line".
3. A movable marker will appear in the picture. Move the mark-
er to a point where you want to start a line. This point will
be anchored. Extend the line to any length. The line can be
rotated around the pivot point at anchor.
4. Repeat the above for each line you want to draw. While you
are doing the lines, you will need to hold the left hand clicker
on the mouse in position until the line is complete.
Hope you understand how it works.( I Dont)
Jack