Please explain the angle

[Rhubarb]

I have seen a different angle on different coin's. From the top of the MM to the Base of the MM. Could this caused from deterioation? Weak Die? The original angle that the MM was produced. The Coin I show a picture of is a 1929 S. At first I thought it might be the 001, the more I rotated the coin and looked..... This is a question that has been gnawing at me for a while. This is a general question and I know it varies from coin to coin.


David



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[coop]

On the first two images it appears to be machine doubling, but in the rest of the images you see littl lines intersecting the mintmark. Looks like heavy die flow starting in the field around the mintmark. So I would say die wear/deteration. The coin looks like it is almost reaching VLDS and when they do the lack of details goes away fast from that point on. I bought a coin from a local coin show that I thought had to be the first 1913-S RPM. And found out later that it wasn't I sent it in to Chuck and he spotted something I've missed. Take a look:


You can see what apprears as a RPM, but if you look at the date you can see that the die has gone through many cleanings and heavy die wear. Although it was not the first 1913-s RPM, it was a coin that Chuck used in his book to help identify heavy die wear for that year. (see page 54)
So I would say die wear on your coin David.

[Rhubarb]

Thank's Coop. I didn't think it was a RPM just didn't know for sure. That is a good example. When you say Die Cleaning around the date it kinda look's like the head dress on you Avatar. Also during the pressing process "die flow" that's where the metal is being pushed down and metal flow's under the worn area's of the die's. I just want to clarify your explanation.

David

[coop]

Cleaning of the dies is just one factor in deforming a die. Die wear from metal to metal contact over and over will eventually show it toll on a die. The die wears in little lines that create little lines inside them. They get deeper and deeper as the die is continued to be used. The die didn't crack/chip/break. so they kept usuing it till it did. Eventually they pull the dies, but they work them for every cent they can make out of the dies. The process is expensive to make the die, so they want to get their money back on them. The coins throught the wheat years were overused and created a lot of coins like this one. But die wear is inevitable as we see coins going from different die states and see them age in a short time as so many coins are struck by them.

[Dick]

Coop, are you SURE this is Rodney Dangerfield quote???? You are pretty sharp, and COULD attribute one to Rodney! HMMMM!
"Oh, when I was a kid, everyone THOUGHT I got plenty of girls. I used to go to a drive-in movie and do push-ups in the backseat of my car."
Rodney Dangerfield
Dick

[Bob P]

One other thing to consider about 'angled' mintmarks. Remember that all mintmarks prior to 1990 were hand punched. You will find plenty of examples out there where the punch was not level when struck. Therefore, the top may be thinner that the bottom...left vs. right is deeper etc. Sometimes, because of this incorrect hammer strike, another strike was required, and this is what gave us a lot o these nice doubled dies we enjoy today.

[coop]

[eagames]

Well that's only true on ebay... some of them DDOs were made with hammers

We knew Bob meant RPM

[coop]

And vises in there garage. Bob will kick himself when he sees his post. I usually edit my spelling when I find it, as other readers may get the sense of what I'm saying better that way. It takes a little time, but the future readers will enjoy it more that way.

Rodney states it all with one word.

[Bob P]

Well Coop...you were right. After I saw my boo-boo I tried to kick myself. Just goes to show that I don't think right either occasionally....or think too quick. Thanks for being forgiving member guys

[coop]

Bob: I tried kicking myself once. About got a hernia trying.
Sorry had to do that to you. When you make a mistake it is rare and I have to rib you....

[Dick]

Coop, I wonder what kind of "vices, or vises" in the garage, is being referred to? Is there something we should know????
Dick

[wavysteps2003]

The vice of using a vise is one vice to quit when vising a coin.

BJ Neff