Lincoln 1995 FS-101 (FS-040) PCGS 66 Double Die Obverse

[Reardon]

Hello,

Has anyone heard of this variety or type and what it might cost to obtain one? The coin is labeled Small Cent 1995 FS-101 (FS-040) PCGS 66 Double Die Obverse RD, the PCGS number is 38105, and PCGS reports that it is a sub variety of the 1995 DDO PCGS number 3127. Thank you in advance for any info that comes this way.

Reardon

[wavysteps2003]

Hi Reardon - There are actually two doubled dies obverse listed for this year, both of which can be seen, with appropriate prices, in this site's guide.

You will see a supposed third listing DDO for this date at times, which is very minor and barely discernable even under magnification.

Now for the oddity of these two dies; while dei # 1 is the stronger of the two, expect to pay less for it. If I remember correctly, the focal point for the discovery of this doubled die obverse was in and around the Miami, Florida area, where a rather large amount were recovered and eventually encapsulted. Die # 2 however, did not have the same fate and far fewer were found.

As far as prices go, EDS coins showing nice division lines do command a better premium than those for a MDS coin in the same MS graded quality. A fair price for Die # 1 in at least MS 64 RD should be around $50.00 for an EDS coin, less for MDS and much less for LDS.

The term "sub variety" is confusing at the least and to be honest with you, I am not sure what it is in reference to.

BJ Neff

[Reardon]

Why does PCGS Certify this coin as a 38105 and a regular 1995 DDO's as 3127;

For instance the 38105 only as a Population of 9 (see below)

PCGS No Date Denom Variety Desig
38105 1995 1C DDO FS-101 (FS-040) MSRD
VG F VF 40 45 50 53 55 58 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 Total:
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 5 2 0 0 0 0 9


and the 3127 has a Population of;

PCGS No Date Denom Variety Desig
3127 1995 1C Doubled Die Obverse MSRD
VG F VF 40 45 50 53 55 58 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 Total:
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 10 90 1,129 4,215 2,355 1,958 0 0 9,757

I AM TOTALLY CONFUSED...hELP ME OUT ON THIS ONE,

[wavysteps2003]

Hi again Reardon,

One of the people that I know at PCGS is looking into just what is going on. He will get back to me when the answer is found.

It may be a case where the same die has recieved two different numbers, which he said has happened before, but at this point, it is just a guess.

BJ Neff

[eagames]

I would expect there's no such thing as a "sub variety" because FS-040 is DDO die-1 and PCGS calls it 3127, a different sub variety would not make sense, die-1 is the variety and the die.

I bet it's the SAME thing, FS-040/DDO-Die-1. It might just be the number they use if they numbered the coin with the "new" FS number scheme FS-101 instead of FS-040.

Here's one they graded that has that 38105 designation:
http://www.pcgs.com/Membership/sharedorder.aspx?OrderNo=20094258
http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/03798018.html

Let us know if you find out for sure

[Reardon]

Heres what PCGS has posted on their POP Report Site:

The population for PCGS No. 38105 is also a subset of PCGS No. 3127

I reported it wrong the first time and it is a SUBSET not a SUB Variety but what does this mean exactly?

PCGS No Date Denom Variety Desig
38105 1995 1C DDO FS-101 (FS-040) MSRD
VG F VF 40 45 50 53 55 58 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 Total:
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 5 2 0 0 0 0 9


Reardon

[Reardon]

PCGS has decided to attribute the coin as to what it really is, a 1995 DDO FS-101 (FS-040) and give it a PCGS Number of 38105 and because they did this it only has a population of 9. But if you add that to the 9,957 others that are PCGS 3127's you get a population of close to 10,000. I was bidding on this item at Teletrade and they advertised it this way:

"Small Cent 1995 FS-101 (FS-040) PCGS 66 Double Die Obverse RD
Full satin-like mint luster. Pleasing surfaces. PCGS has certified a mere two coins at this level with none finer."

Which as we all know is BS, is there no end to the misleading advertising that people will attempt in order to relieve you of your hard earned money?

By the way I spoke to a Teletrade customer service representative and he assured me that this coin was unique and a Top Pop to boot....

Reardon

[eagames]

Reardon,

I think what you said is right.

They knowingly or unknowingly hyped up an MS66 $50-60 dollar coin that you can BIN on ebay today in a PCGS MS67 RED for $75.

I'll be amazed if there's any other reason. Still eager to see if anyone figures out why that number got used or if by some miracle it has a different meaning. Also I wonder what the coin sold for on Teletrade?

It also reminds me of the problem with population numbers.... Some low value variety that nobody graded because they're worth less than grading fees then someone gets one graded and sells it hyping the "low pop".

[wavysteps2003]

Okay - The offical reasoning behind the two numbers for 1995, Lincoln cent DDO-001.

The first number, 3217, is for submitions that came through the regular service or line.

The second number, 38,105, are for submitions through the variety attribution services.

They are both the same die and the main difference is knowing what you have submitted.

This is from the PCGS office.

BJ Neff

[eagames]

Good info BJ,

I think they also start the numbers for ones submitted that way with an E because it's error-variety service.

It's the same old FS-040 coin and not anything different as we thought, not worth anything different.

[Reardon]

BJ,

The issue was that Teletrade was selling the coin as a TOP POP, not that PCGS did anything questionable. It was Teletrade that IMHO played around with the wording on their auction for one of the 38105 1995 DDO's. Below is the exact wording of their auction:

"Small Cent 1995 FS-101 (FS-040) PCGS 66 Double Die Obverse RD
Full satin-like mint luster. Pleasing surfaces. PCGS has certified a mere two coins at this level with none finer."

I don't know how you folks feel, but I think that is a bit on the shady side of the street.

Reardon

[wavysteps2003]

It is definitely a play on words and the best thing to do is to seek the truth as you did.

I am happy that I could help.

BJ Neff