Interesting coneca site

[eagames]

Coneca has a few new DDO and RPM images at their new site.
Has anyone been looking at the site yet?


http://www.varietyvista.com/split_image.htm

[Gabe]

Interesting.. they have 8 dies pictured for cents. I think I'll stick to coppercoins.com for attributions...

[Dick]

I check it frequently, but "there ain't NO place like home"!!!
Dick

[Bob P]

The VarietyVista site is still in its infancy. I don't suspect anything will come close to the amount of information contained on coppercoins. However, since CONECA deals with all denominations, I will go there occasionally to see what's there. Setting the site up is the easy part. Maintaining it and keeping it updated will be the hard part for those folks. They way I see it, there can never be enough info out there. I wish them well, but will always be very partial to coppercoins.

[Mike]

The part I found that was interesting was the line that read "We are in the beginning stages of what promises to be the premier reference for die variety collectors." I seriously doubt that they will ever come close to to Coopercoins.com. CONECA is a fine organization but they seem to be more interested in making a buck off us (variety collectors)than anything else. I don't disagree with them making a few dollars for thier efforts. We may someday be paying to access the substantal information here. It just seems that unless you are in with the crowd over there, your chances of getting anything listed with CONECA are very chancy. You had better have some wide seperation on the mint mark or you get the standard "To minor to list" Yet when I checked out the RPM book I found that several RPM's listed had less seperation than what I have submitted in the past. Several of these minor rpms were submitted by past or present board members I wonder??? It's a lot of work to attribute these varieties so I suppose that I can't blame them But I hold little hope of them ever coming close to being the "Premier" reference site for me. I my humble opinion Chuck and Bob are light years ahead of Varietyvista.com

[coop]

[Dick]

Coop, if you could come up with the way to make something like that, come true, it would be a God-send! Then we could check our 4-bit pieces, just like the cents! BTW, it's ok to dream!
Dick

[Mike]

Opps
Coppercoin
Oh well Coops got quite of few on here too!

[wavysteps2003]

Mike - And just how does CONECA make a buck off the variety collectors?

Are you refering to the yearly dues of $25.00, which entitles you to 6 issues of ERRORSCOPE and access to their libary of variety and error books? Or are you refering to the attribution fees that coppercoins also charges?

I really think that you do not know much about CONECA, what its function is or even its purpose.

Yes, coppercoins is ahead of the game at this time and I will take nothing away from this site for it is excellent, but the one of the draw back is that it deals only with the Lincoln cent. As you can see, CONECA will be dealing with all denomination of U. S. Minted coins.

Another draw back is that coppercoins has two people, Chuck and Bob who are the experts envolved in this site. Coneca's list; J. T. Stanton, Bill Fivas, Chris Pilliod, Rick Snow, John Wexler, Ken Potter, James Wiles, Billy Crawford, Frank Leone, Ken Hill, Mike Ellis, Mike Diamond, Jose' Cortez, Mark Lighterman, Gene Nichols and the list goes on and on with experts in all denominations in both errors and varieties who do provide inputs into CONECA's site. So in that sense CONECA does have the distinct advantage.

As far as getting coins listed. Lets take a look at something first. All coins that were made with multiple hubbing ARE DOUBLED DIES, this is a plain and simple fact. It is the degree of seperation between the hubbings that we are measuring. John Wexler is fairly liberal with his listings for if it is a doubled die that he can see, he will list it. Coppercoins has taken the middle of the road, for while they do list most anomalies, a line is drawn and some that are considered to minor are not listed. CONECA is conservative in their listings and it is up to the indivual at THAT TIME, WHO IS DOING THE ATTRIBUTIONS, what will be listed and what will not. "Cherrypickers' Guide" is very conservative, choosing only the strongest dies to be listed with the F/S number and yet, the leading encapsulating company, PCGS uses that numbering system exclusively. You can pick and choose where you would like to have your coin listed, just like you can pick and choose where to have your coin encapsulated. By the way, I have sent numerous coins to be attributed to James Wiles and only two have ever come back as to minor to list. I guess I am in with the crowd over there, but that is my choice.

As far as CONECA becoming a "Premie" site, it will happen. Not only do we have the manpower and the expertise to accomplish this, we also have the capital, it is only a matter of time.

BJ Neff

[eagames]

BJ,

What you mentioned about Coneca is the reason that I'm excited to see them start listing some photos.
They're an important part of the whole variety collecting hobby.

[hasfam]

I was excited when I joined CONECA in 1997 because I was new to the variety hobby and there was a wealth of knowledge and experience there. I enjoyed the Errorscopes and have kept a few for references. I did feel a little left out because so many members knew each other on a personal level for years and years and there were annual affairs, events etc that everyone except me seemed to be able to go to. As much as I held the highest respect for everyone's accomplishments, I could never seem to get past the 'Coneca as a reference guide' and become a intergrated interactive member of a community. CONECA has the history, knowledge, manpower and whatever else to accomplish pretty much whatever they want. When they talk, people listen. I just wished they would have talked a little more to us common folks . I love this forum because I feel like I can, if I choose, to contribute in some small way to the advancement of this hobby. There are experts here but no one is unapproachable. I feel like a part of a team in some small way. I wish CONECA well with their online efforts though its a few years late in my opinion.
Rock

[Dick]

Gentlemen, (and ladys), I can't help putting in my 2 cents worth!
I, like many others am a member of CONECA, Coppercoins.com, and CCF.com. I don't remember if it was an article by BJ, or Mike Diamond, about the 1946-S, but I only had at that time, about six months time, as a collector, (again), and the curiosity got the best of me.

Then I heard about Coppercoins, and joined, to see what they had to offer. This, because I had spent a lot of time looking at CONECAs gallery(s), but couldn't make heads, or tails of the "index".. There are "ten thousand words", but no photo.
For me, it should be the other way around.
CONECA, with the wealth of experts in so many areas, could make a much better site, with very little effort, by doing as Chuck and Bob have done with coppercoins!
(This is not to say theat they did it "with very little effort", because what they have done is make a site that is the envy of all the others, because of their LONG, LONG hours)

Every photo is great for identifing the coin, giving the wealth of information needed to POSITITIVLY IDENTIFY the coin in hand.

MARKER PHOTOS allow one to ID, or lay aside the variety. OKAY, I said "variety". I know there are other characteristics, that we use to make our coin unique, ( from the standpoint that it is the only one we own)! I have other coins that I would just love to identify, and know that it is what I SAID IT IS. It obviously takes more time, and materials, etc , to provide the MARKER PHOTOS, but they would be a blessing on CONECA! Cents are NOT the only denomination with varieties. Thanks for listening!
Dick

[coppercoins]

Okay, I'll throw my hat in the ring here. I have some unique insight to all of this that nobody else could possibly have.

Coppercoins is far and away ahead of CONECA in web development, that's true. VarietyVista is a new site - Coppercoins is 8 years old. That alone answers for much of the reason why our images outnumber theirs hundreds to one, but it takes nothing away from their intent or effort to this date. It would have been nice if they had thought to do this years ago when it was possible...and it was, I volunteered to do it for them before I went through the trouble of creating this site and the system that accompanies it. That's right, I volunteered to do what I did on Coppercoins for CONECA and was refused...which is much of the reason why this site exists.

We are also a collector based and led group, that much is also true. Although I am the owner and have final word on everything that occurs here, I always listen to the members here and what they have to say. When I was active in CONECA (or as active as I thought I could be on my budget), I felt that I was a grain of sand on the beach and would never be called on or noticed - but much of this was my own doing...I didn't think they would accept my articles, so I didn't write. I didn't think they'd want to talk to me, so I didn't call. I just figured this was a good-ole-boys club that I'd never be "in" with....so I never really tried hard after volunteering to take on a big task only to be shot down.

Time has passed and things have changed - coppercoins, originally created as a response to being ignored by the big clubs, has become the largest reference for die variety information in the world, and it is growing. CONECA has finally started using the power of the web for the same purpose, but is sorefully behind and they know it. How do I know this?

Earlier this month I spent a week teaching at the Summer Seminar in Colorado Springs. While there I found that none other than James Wiles, CONECA attributor, was there teaching a class as well. I met up with him on the first day and arranged for us to sit down and have a talk or two. We did, and to make a long story short, we shared our experiences with each other during what adds up to better than ten hours of conversation over the week. We got along very well, and realized through that time that we had very much misunderstood each other through all the years and both wished our outcome could have been different.

In discussing all of this, we have decided tentatively to couple our efforts in some projects, to share information with one another openly, and the big kicker...to teach a brand new class together - TOGETHER - at the Summer Seminar next year. The current plan is to focus on Lincoln cents, teaching grading, authentication, and especially attribution. Our plan is to sit people down and teach them with examples and microscopes how to attribute die varieties themselves, using the references they have to their disposal - mainly the web and our two sites.

Now...as for the people BJ mentioned...an odd list if we're consindering CONECA active experts, because nearly half the people on the list either have nothing to do with CONECA or have disappeared and are not accessible to collectors.

And last....while the CONECA site and VarietyVault are focused on all US coins, it is true that coppercoins is Lincoln cents only. One thing to consider, though, is that I also own uscoinvarieties.com and have for nearly five years now. This site will eventually open and be just like coppercoins.com but will be for all US coins. I already have that base covered, but have been spending more time in other areas.

[wavysteps2003]

Chuck - Your statment concerning the list that I provided of the people who are members of CONECA is a bit confussing. All are members and although some do have issues with others of the organization, I do not beleive that the issues concern what the organization is or what it stands for. As far as collector accessiblity, I have communicated with all of them, within the last month, except Ken Hill and Billy Crawford, so I can not understand your statment that they have disappeared.

I do think that your talking with James Wiles is a very good thing, for all experts should be able to communicate with each other, for it is in the best interest of the hobby.

In retrospect, are all the repetative listings from each organization a necessity? Does it serve the hobby to have four or five numbers for just one particular die variety? Is it a waste of time and money to have sites, that are non-profit organizations, compete against each other to garner support for that particular system?

There seems to be to much negative publicity, thoughts and ideas floating around about either this organization or that organization. What good does it do?

I would think that this hooby would be infinetly better served if the error and variety organizations worked more closely with each other than being in some type of competition with each other. That is just my thoughts.

BJ Neff

[Dick]

Gentlemen, I believe CONECA is the big loser here, even with the wealth of experts, and capitol. We have a very easy system of identification, with a data base un-equaled by any other site. I still don't understand their system, (albeit, I have only tried a few times to find any info). It still comes down to what the long time members are used to using, and, to them, is "no problem". I use the books,by the several Authors only as a reference, because they are equally limited in what can be presented, due to time, space, money, among other things. I have always believed in a good reference, because no one can keep all that information in their head, for ready recall. The beauty of Coppercoins.com, is the photos, and the acompaning "marker photos" there, that will let one see what they are looking at/for. I personally would have given up on varieties, long ago, without the photos on the site. For this reason, I will be a member until I die, or am chased away, for being such a pain! Thank you Chuck for your hard work, and dedication! This goes for Bob, as well. You are a team, that "Get the job done". Without them, and the fellow members that send in our coins, now and then, what would we be looking at? CONECA? I think not.
Dick