An Attributer gone bad???

[Bob P]

Hi folks,
The title may have got your attention, but rest assured, it is not one of coppercoins.com attributers. I have spoken to many people who have the same problem with the person I am talking about.
Most of you have heard about or dealt with Ken Potter. He is a very knowledgeable individual concerning both US and world varieties and errors.
He does have one very bad problem though, and I have fallen victim to it as well as many of you out there. It seems Ken Potter overworks himself to the point where the coins submitted to him for attribution don't matter any more. It seems that in addition, his customer service is non existent, and it also seems he is daring me to write this.
A little background:
A little over a year ago, I was very much involved in the Minnesota State Quarter Doubled dies. I bought many rolls searching for these, and have since accumulated well over 700 individual doubled dies in this series. Other experts in the field agreed to number all of those attributed with the same number...an excellent idea. Potter, Wiles, Crawford, and Wexler did so for a while. For some reason or another, Ken Potter could not continue with this arrangement, and the numbers started changing, with each attributer using their own number.
I sent many coins to Ken Potter for attribution starting in August of last year. Some of them are one-of- a-kind. He listed two, and has many others of mine that I sent. I also sent him a box of about 23 unattributed doubled dies I told him to keep once the attribution was completed and I was given credit for any new varieties listed. In addition, he also has a check of mine that has not been cashed, but has cashed others.
Ken did put a statement on his website in December about a series of setbacks, but promised to get back on the attributions.
Needless to say, none of that has happened. No updates to the Minnesota Doubled Dies has been made since January. NOT ONE of my coins has been returned, the check still remains uncashed which prohibits me from closing out last years bank records. Numerous early emails were answered with a new return date of a couple of weeks.
Since earlier this year, I have demanded my coins be returned. I have sent numerous emails, tried phoning him, left messages, and even sent him a letter through the post office. He has chosen to ignore all of those. Not one time has he even sent a one line email saying he would return my coins.
To me, this amounts to theft. His reluctance to address this issue with me, and many others out there has given his status a serious setback, and has branded him a thief in my book.
This thread is to warn all of you about dealing with Mr. Potter. If some of you are dealing with the same issues concerning him, I would like to know about it. I am collecting names and dates of which coins were submitted. Hopefully, none of you (except the few I know about already) have had coins in his hands for almost a year like me.
I will not let this rest. I will do what it takes to get my coins back, including posting this message in other forums. All information collected will be added to this particular case for any action taken in the near future.

It is a tragedy that Ken has let it get this far. I am sure his standing in the collecting community will take a hit if he doesn't do the right thing.
I will not tell anyone to discontinue dealing with Ken. I only want everyone to know what you might have to deal with. Do you really trust your coins with someone who doesn't seem to care about them or you? Are you willing to take a chance on a priceless or sentimental coin not being returned? Are you willing to deal with a year of frustration and being ignored? I certainly hope not.
I am also an attributer and know that delays can happen. However, year long delays and non response to inquiries borders on criminal as far as I am concerned. Whatever his excuses are don't matter anymore. He and his actions speak louder than words.

ADDED: Should you not want your information made public, please feel free to eamil me with your information including coins sent, how long, and any responses you may have received from him. Send that info to bobp@coppercoins.com.

[smed]

I've had a problem with him ever since the wide AM cents were discovered. To paraphrase what he said in a trade at the time, these were no big deal. A month later he's selling them on his website for major prices. I think he was attempting to dissuade people from buying them so *he* could buy them up.

[Dick]

Bob, I'm very sorry to hear this. I have been lucky, in that I have sent only a very few coins, "anywhere", and have received all of them back. I have known Ken for a couple of years, maybe a bit longer, and have chatted with him via email, and IM. My impression of him was comfortable. Now I will admit, it has been over a year since the last direct contact, and in a year, anything can, and will happen, if circumstances permit, or pressures force a change. I am not defending him. I don't know him personally. I rely on my contacts thru the internet, and hope they are as forward with me, as I am with them. I am sorry to hear about this, and maybe he has a good reason. I appreciate being "fore-warned".
Dick

[Gabe]

Bob, I too am fedup with Ken Potter and his refusal to reply to any of my emails, and return my coin.

I sent him over a year ago a mint set which contained a Minnesota doubled die tree, with a money order to go along with it. To tell you the truth, I dont know if he ever deposited the money order, but he sure has kept my mint set! I've emailed him many times, and have pretty much just quit trying to get my coins back.

The only time he replied to me was when he sent out a group email, in which he promised that everything was going to be taken care of. I also have contacted other people who are always in contact with him, and can't seem to help me.


I don't know what his deal is, and I always assumed that maybe he was going through some deep personal issues.

I'll send you the information about my own case later today...

[Dick]

This is a personal opinion, and is directed to the general forum. I am saddened to hear about the situation with Ken Potter, and the circumstances surrounding his last year, or so, activities. It is good that this has been brought up here, on the forum, and a possible solution obtained. Barring that, then no doubt it will eventually go to litigation, and that is what makes me even sadder. Too much of his life, and personal reputation has been shadowed, by this situation. Maybe, as has been mentioned, he has a deep personal problem. I think he, if that be the case, should advise the members of the various forums, to which he belongs, and ask for assistance. The return of all coins, regardless, to the rightful owners is paramount, and should be addressed summarily. NOTHING is more important that another persons trust! That, IMHO is SACRED!
Thanks for allowing me to express my concerns for my many friends, on this forum.
Dick

[Bob P]

Dick,
For the longest time, I had no problems with Ken Potter. I actively sought his advice, and counted on his expertise. The problem now seems to be his disregard for other people's property. His refusal to respond to inquiries only buries him further. I was told that rather than answer all the emails asking the where-abouts of people's coins, he was just going to get caught up and take care of everything. The last known updates to the Minnesota Doubled Dies on his site is JANUARY! I suggested he make one general comment on his website explaining what's happening rather than answering all those emails.
I have asked those close to him or with knowledge of his health if there was anything up with him. That was genuinely my first concern. I was told he was fine.
As of this thread reply, I have received emails from 7 of our members who have had coins with Ken for well over 6 months. I can only imagine the count from other folks not associated with coppercoins.com. This is sad...very, very sad.

[Mike]

I’m not surprised Bob.
Mr. Potter has a way of playing down some varieties as very minor until he gets his hands on some. Then their the best thing ever when he lists them on eBay. Speaking of which he seems to have plenty of time to conduct his ebay sales. I wish you luck getting this settled without involving the sharks.

Mike

[Dick]

I find out that "Mr. Potter", has also some complaining "customers" in Prescott, AZ. They are about ready to "lynch" him"! My Son there, was telling me, this evening. He thinks Ken just got too big, and it went to his head. Wonder just how widespread it actually is? It will eventually come out in the Coin World, and other pubs.
Dick

[joeyuk]

I'm sorry to here this. My only dealing with him was my offering a trade for a 1999 wide AM cent. He had a purchase price of $500 on it. I accepted the trade so shame on me but he later had the coins I traded listed for sale at well over $1,500.
Joe

PS I should add this was long before I ever sold on E-BAY.

[Bob P]

UPDATE:
As of Friday night, this thread has found its way to people who have offered to contact Ken directly and try to get the coins returned to their owners. I have been informed that Ken has responded and will start returning coins and fees. When that will happen is not immediately known, but I suspect it will be soon. For those of you who have contacted me with your own concerns about coins still in Ken's possession, please be kind enough to let me know when they arrive back home. Once everyone is satisfied then, and only then, will I consider this case closed.
As far as dealing with Ken in the future, that of course is up to you. Whether or not he even wants to do this in the future is up in the air. His reputation has taken a considerable hit with some of us, but his knowledge on U.S. and World varieties and errors is still considerable. We will see how this all pans out. More updates will be posted here as they become available.

[Dick]

Bob, it is nice that it is going this way. He has too much to offer to the general populace, to go out in this fashion. Hopefully, he has had his problems, and is getting, or has gotten help.
Dick

[Bob P]

Well, It has been a while since I have addressed this issue because I have been trying various ways to solve the problem. To this date, none have worked, and I still do not have my coins back from Ken Potter. I enlisted the assistance of the CONECA President, Mike Diamond, and he contacted Ken on several occasions to try and get my coins returned. Ken told him on each occasion that my coins, and those of others who have coins in his care would be returned along with any fees. He has also misplaced one of my coins for the time being. Ken was to return coins in the order of which he held them, which included some from late 2005. I can not speak for anyone else, but my coins and some of others who have contacted me still have not been returned. Mr. Diamond is upset that it has gone this far as well.
At this point, I have decided to file a formal grievance with the CONECA board. If any of you are CONECA members, and wish to file a grievance as well, Mike has talked of the possibility of a collective grievance where more than one member is represented. The process is due to start very soon, so if you would like to get in on this, please contact Mike at MDia1@aol.com

[Bob P]

Today, August 13th, I have received the majority of my coins back from Ken Potter. In the package was a letter to collectors explaining what has happened to people's packages since last year. Although I reserve judgment on the contents of that letter, I need for everyone who has been affected by this, to be looking forward to getting their coins back sometime soon. If you do not get them back soon, or are missing coins, please don't leave it at that. Mr. Potter is expecting to return ALL packages, whether attributed or not. He most likely will not be accepting more coins for attribution until he has a chance to assess his situation and post new submission guidelines. He states that may be several months down the road.
As far as the grievance I filed, I asked the President of CONECA (Mike Diamond) to make a determination as to whether or not it should go forward. I will let you know later on that determination.

[GarryN]

I am glad you got most of your coins back, Bob. I hope you get the rest. I have no idea what is going on. Anytime we give up control of our possessions, we accept a calculated risk something can go wrong for one reason or another.

[Dick]

Bob, the coins arrived yesterday, and the pkg of inserts is very nice. Thank you, very much! While the new inserts will make it easier removing them to read the info on them, I am very sorry that there will not be any improvement in the handwriting. As a child, my teacher told me I should seek employment as a DR, when I am grown. My handwriting indicates I would be a good one!
Dick