Presidential Dollar thread.

Dick · Expert Member

Bib, I would refer to them as second error coins. The first error was ever having produced them in the first place! Laughing

Dick

notabot · Advanced Member

Shop at home is featuring the Pf 70 Ultra Deep Cameo tonight, and the price is now reduced from $1,299 to $599 (9-2-07). The stated reason is that the latest shipments, which are part of the Clad Proof Set, have a much improved quality.
Looking at this from both perspectives, it means people who bought early got lesser quality, and getting 70's is tough,
So the US mint, seeing the issue, cleaned up the dies, and quality is so much better that the numbers allow them to grade more 70 sets, and the price goes down.
It conversely means (and this is a guess, so feel free to weigh in on it) that they have moved from the first dies to new ones.
Anyone have any learned perspective on this?
If they are using new dies, will this necessarily mean that first purchasers, or early realeses buyers, or whatever people who bought early want to call it, are setting on varieties which are no longer being sold?

coop · Expert Member

Or something else to be considered other than just new dies, maybe new hubs. With new hubs & dies you get the best of both world's.

notabot · Advanced Member

As a novice, I would appreciate someone boiling down how hubs are made, and how they are part of the overall process.
I really need to understand the process before I comment on how the end result is affected.
Thanks!!

smed · Senior Member

The minting process at the US Mint website for kids:

http://www.usmint.gov/kids/coinnews/mintingProcess/

Coin World:

http://www.coinworld.com/NewCollector/MintingProcess.asp

Dick · Expert Member

Notabot, I would also siggest the "Plaid Book", as it is commonly known, by Alfred Margolis, NLG, andFred Weinberg, NLG, Named "The error coin Encyclopedia"
It takes you thru the complete process, and is very easy to rad. I have, and
no doubt will read it again.
Dick

eagames · Expert Member

Most of the good books including CDs book has a section explaining die making.

You asked:

notabot · Advanced Member

Smed Dick, and EA games, thanks for the information, and I can send my neices to the US mint site, as well!

eagames · Expert Member

Probably old news, looks like the courts didn't agree with the TPGs giving FS "first strike" on holders.

I still don't get it, if they both had to pay penalty plus give out info saying FS = BS so why are they still allowed to do it? Maybe they should put the disclaimers on the slabs.

Maybe if there's any furum members with law degrees they can explain how it still continues after loosing the suit?

http://blog.lipcon.com/2007/09/ngc_settles_first_strikes_laws.html

Steven · Expert Member

Something to add to the thread subject. I opened a roll of the Jefferson 1$ today and got a couple with some minor edge issues. With some of those found previously by others, these would probably not bring a premium.
Steven

notabot · Advanced Member

Whether you call it a first strike or an early release makes no difference, IMHO. If you receive a Proof 70 eagle of either gold or silver in December mail from the mint, it is a better coin than either a first strike or early release of 69 ilk. Thanks for the link on the court case, as it was instructive. I was worried when I bought my Presidential Proofs that I would not get them in time for the "vaulted" early release/first strike designation, but no more. I will simply open the boxes, cull out the best for grading, sell the remainder of the lesser slabbed when they come back, and satisfy myself that I bought enough of the minting to get some Pf 70 coins, regardless of whether it is Christmas or the 4th of July.

notabot · Advanced Member

Numismatic News reports a doubled die Jefferson, and they have detailed guesstimates on how it occurred:

http://www.numismaticnews.net/Default.aspx?tabid=459&articleid=7904&articlemid=1391#1391Articles

GarryN · Expert Member

I talk about the Adams so-called doubled die reverse in the New Finds Die Varieties section. I think they are die breaks. But what do I know. Here is Billy Crawford's article in Die Variety News. He has the same theory about tilted hubs.

http://home.sc.rr.com/dievarieties/Die_Variety_News.html

notabot · Advanced Member

GarryN thanks for the heads up...very informative..

notabot · Advanced Member

The mint is TRULY creating market scarcity with their vaulted Quality Assurance section. This coin is ever rarer then the vaulted 1933 gold coin seized by them for "authentication". Numismatic News has the story, and it is a fine article:

http://www.numismaticnews.net/Default.aspx?tabid=459&articleid=8041&articlemid=1391#1391Articles