Tilted vs. Rotated

Rhubarb · Senior Member

I was looking at the new addition's and this coin http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/diestate.php?date=1949&die_id=1949d1mm018&die_state=eds

has the split seriff. The caption's say it's tilted. I would have presumed it was a rotated MM. Perhap's I am wrong about my theory. Can anyone explain the difference. These differences have confused me for a while. Thank's for your reply's.

Rhubarb

coop · Expert Member

Well let's run through them all. RPMs can be in 11 different directions N/S/E/W NE/SE NW/SW which are obvious. The rotated ones is where the punch get rotated in two different directions CW/CCW and the tilted are punched on the upper part of the mint mark or lower leaving a serif on the Upper or lower or both of the Serifs. The tilted are more common, but the rotated has a curve on the upper or lower inside mint mark. They still make a split oon the serif, but the center is different looking. Hope this is all correct. But someone will correct me if I'm wrong. All are RPMs as the separation is the distinction of a regular mint mark or a RPM. I have seen mint marks the were regular, but the tilt is higher on the upper or lower serif. These are not RPMs just a tilted mint mark. The separation is what is the key on varieties. The bigger the separation, the more demand for them.

Rhubarb · Senior Member

Thank's Coop. That explain's my confusion when it comes to the engraver punching the MM.

David

Dick · Expert Member

Coop, this is not a dumb question Shocked

confused, yes. To wit:
"I have seen mint marks the were regular, but the tilt is higher on the upper or lower serif. These are not RPMs just a tilted mint mark."
Are we referring to the angle of dangle from the perpendicular? Addressing the "Punch" , itself, and the relation to the surface. I mean actually the appearance of some of the MM that are very "lop-sided", as tho they were struck at an angle. " My God, I must have been drunk! What did you say your name is?", asked the engraver.
Dick

coop · Expert Member

Dick: Yes the angle of the mint mark was thicker at the top than the bottom. Its punched in by hand by the mint. The engraver didn't do it. When doing microscopic work, we noticed the slightest things about coins. I'm sure they don't use a scope when setting the mint marks. They probably check with a lower power. But we pick up on stiff like that. Looks like a few RPMs with 4 or more on them in multiple places, could be alcohol related. Wink

eagames · Expert Member

Dick, that question is a good one.

I think the point is that when talking about mintmarks tilt is rotation (not being thicker on one side than another side). BUT when talking doubled dies and tilted hubs it changes axis and tilt means the hub pressed into the die at a tilted angle like you said

Dick · Expert Member

Coop, ED, thankd for the clarification. Whew, I thought there for a minute, I had discovered something new! Which indicates to me that "tilt', and "rotated", cw/ccw mean essencially the same, right? If you have a "D" MM with the upper, or lower portion,Thicker than the opposite edge, it would indicate the punch was actually at other that a perfectly perpendiculat position to the surface. That would be the reasonfor my origninal question. I have seen this anomily, on "S" MM's, but in particular the "D".Comments?
Dick

coop · Expert Member

Hmmm.... Dick must have missed the point of my post. Rotated are turned with the punch. Tilted are overlaping from top to bottom of the mint mark. Both create split serifs, but the rotated had a curved mark on the upper inside/lower inside part of the mint marks.
Look at the upper part of the upright the mark on the upper verticle.
http://coppercoins.com/lincoln/diestate.php?date=1960&die_id=1960d1mm080&die_state=lds

http://coppercoins.com/lincoln/diestate.php?date=1960&die_id=1960d1mm068&die_state=lds

The tilted don't have that mark on them. Try doing a search for the rotated ones and see if you can tell the difference?