The 1970-S small date, misattribution, and population

[KurtS]

After finding a few 70-S small dates in a dealer's cache, I've been checking on eBay and other sites to get a general idea of the availability of these coins. On eBay for example, I'm surprised to see that very few "small dates" are on auction, and many of those appear to be misattributed large dates (!)

What I find interesting is how many people seem to look for these coins, but I see very few actually up for sale, whether that's on eBay or Heritage auctions. So what's the explanation: There is a small market for these coins--despite many collectors actively looking for them? Or: there are few available coins outside those kept by collectors? Or this is just a sampling anomaly?

[Dick]

Kurt, those questions mighy possibly be "partially" answered after the results of Chucks great search of as many cents, (from circulation), that may still be on-going. Many, many of us searched two boxes of cents, for the '70-S SMALL dat, among other specified dates, etc, and I know he wanted to get as large a "sampking" as possible, but it is hard to cover evenly an area as large as the US, so it at best will be "spotty" I'm sure there will be enough retutns for the efforts, to make a fairly accurate judgement on thr population of the small date '70-S. They are hard to define, unless one has both sizes to compare, and with the normal wear, and tear that they go thru, in the normal circulation, it becomes very difficult to be sure. I was in on it, and did four boxes. I don't know how accurate my findings were, due to my vision, but, I tried!
Dick

[KurtS]

Thanks for sharing your experience. While I've only re-started my collection recently, I have looked for the 70-S SD for at least a decade in change and occasionally, bank rolls. I never found one of course!

I forget the sources, but I recall a population estimated anywhere from 20,000 to 50,000 copies (or is that off by a decimal place?). I've also read all sorts of analyses of the small date's origin, including simple die polishing! I would be very interested in reading the latest research on this variety, because there are a lot of conflicting opinions out there.

For instance, at what stage in the hub or die-making process did the LD and SD differences originate? I'm all ears, because I really don't know much about this process, and would like to learn more!

[Dick]

Kurt, I believe Chuck would be the one to answer your questions, as it is his project, and has been for several years. It was just recently that he was able to get the resources to move on the project. It was composed of many, many volunteers, who went thru two boxes of circulated cents, and reported theit findings. You can read about this project at "coinproject.com". I'm not real sure that is the correct name, but Chuck can direct you to the site, for any, and all info you want
Kurt, I don't remember if it was the US or variety forum, but Chuck made two posts in that respect. You might check them, and the ones prior to that where he explains the project..
Dick

[eagames]

They are tough to find.

I have heard of people finding them circulated but I never did and I've looked for years. I found small dates in mint sets or still in plastic cut from mint sets. So look in the mint sets, that's where a lot of them came from. Some mint sets have the nice 1MM-001 so look at the 70 mint sets and you might find a small date or the nice RPM.

http://coppercoins.com/lincoln/diestate.php?date=1970&die_id=1970s1mm001&die_state=mds

[cladking]

A little more than 10% of the two million mint sets originally contained the small date (15% S/S). This means 200,000 from mint sets alone but many of these will be destroyed or degraded. Mint set dies were usually used to strike regular issues after retirement so these dies probably went on to strike another million coins or more. It's possible a very tiny percentage of these were set aside and after all these years the attrition on circulating cents would be staggering.

Despite looking since 1970 and having access to the coins others have found in circulation, I've found only a single coin in circulation. (nice AU-)(poorly struck MDS)

I've seen three rolls of the small dates and every one was a mint set coin. One of the rolls was offered to me for $45 but I considered that excessive.

[smed]

I have a few 1970 mint sets stashed somewhere, I'll have to find them and check.

[smed]

Nope, none of them have one.

[coop]

I remember looking for these a few years back and tried to use the level across the upper date numbers. Then I took a suggestion from Chuck about the 7. But that seemed hard also. But I think I've figured out the easiest way to tell them. I know it's no big secret, but having an image of both before you will make the point. I borrowed an image from KurtS and added a large date. See if this helps you?

[eagames]

Coop,

Those are helpful pics.
It clearly shows how the 9s inside curl points to the bottom of the 7 on the large but on the small it points higher up.

It also shows my favorite thing to look for. The small date has a pointed end on the 9s inside curl but the large is blunt.

After that I look for the rest:

(small date has the chunky shorter 7 with no crease)
(large date has a longer 7 with a crease)

(large date has a tip on top of 0)
(small date has no tip on top of 0)

(most small dates have weakness on LIBERTY)
(most large dates have a bolder LIBERTY)

(small dates have almost level date top)
(large dates have a lower 7 date top)

[coop]

Ed: I was trying to get something that showed without the need of a glass. Something that would be seen with the naked eye. The 7 is the same size, just in a higher position and looks shorter if you look at the bottom edge of the digits. Another good point to look for. The weak LIBERTY happens a lot on even Denver mint ones from that year. Si I feel that it isn't a good marker for it.

[Dick]

Coop, I agree with you. Especially, after it has seen a few years in circulatin. Nothing looks the same, so I usually refer to the "angle of dangle" on the "9" to "point me in the right direction".
Dick

[coppercoins]

Over a million cents searched and I have found ONE 1970S small date in circulation. Just one.

It was a decent brown EF-AU coin.

[coop]

[AgCollector]