1998, 1999, and 2000 Wide AM Cents

[doubledguy]

Hello everyone,
In reading some other topics, I noticed some questions about the 1998, 1999, and 2000 Wide AM Lincoln cents and the number of dies that there are for each of those years. I don't think that anyone has a definitive answer to that just yet, but I have been doing some research.
My goal in this research has been to determine how many different dies exist for each of the dates 1998, 1999, and 2000. I have been assigning each new die that comes to my attention a Wexler Die File number (1998 1c WWAM-001, etc.). No, it is not my purpose here to ever see these sold by die number. My only purpose has been, and is, to determine how many different dies exist for these dates so that we can get a sense, based on average die life, as to how many specimens there probably are for each of the known dates.
To date I have listed in my files 17 different 1998 1c Wide AM dies, 4 different 1999 1c Wide AM dies, and 17 different 2000 1c Wide AM dies.
Yes, there definitely are 4 different 1999 1c Wide AM dies and not just one! An even more interesting fact is that two of the 1999 Wide AM dies are the exact same dies as two of the 1998 Wide AM dies. This interesting fact was discovered and verified by variety specialist Billy G. Crawford.
This begs the question as to whether or not the other two 1999 Wide AM dies can be linked to as yet unknown 1998 Wide AM dies. They can not be linked to any of the 17 1998 Wide AM dies that I have currently listed in my files.
A big thank you in this research goes out to G. J. Lawson who supplied a very large number of the different dies that I was able to list including the 4 different 1999 1c Wide AM dies.
That's where the research on these is at the moment. Hope the info helps.
John A. Wexler (JAWs)

[Bob P]

Very enlightening information John, and I certainly appreciate you taking the time to address this issue. I am somewhat floored over the sheer numbers of wide AM dies for those 3 years. Looks like I have a lot more searching to do Please pass on to G. J. Lawson our thanks as well.

[doubledguy]

Hi Bob,
Having been to the Mint in Philadelphia on two separate occasions for ground floor tours, I am not surprised at that number. I've seen the trays (boxes) of dies that sit there at the hubbing presses with the dies that come off the hubbing presses. They can hold up to 2 or 3 dozen dies and if one of those trays held dies intended for proofs, but was later grabbed and the dies used for circulation strikes, I could easily see where 2 to 3 dozen or more dies could be affected

It will be interesting to see just how many different dies I end up recording. Even with 4 known dies, it appears that 1999 will remain far rarer than 1998 or 2000.

John (JAWs)

[Bob P]

Me too John! This should be very interesting in the long run. I did receive some approximate numbers from Billy concerning the 2000 wide AMs. I believe those numbers were from G. J. Lawson as well. I never paid too much attention to the wide AMs (although I had a few) until I was researching the 2000P 'extra beard' die. I went through a few small bags of memorials I had here to pull out all of the 2000P coins in there. I was very surprised to find 6 Wide AM coins while searching for MAD clashes. Now that I have more definitive numbers, I realize there must be many more out here and probably right here in my office than I ever imagined.
My next task is to pull all of my 1999s and check them also. I should be busy for a century or two Thanks again John.

[doubledguy]

Bob,

If you want to send the 2000 1c Wide AM's that you found, I would gladly look them over to see if they correspond to any of the 17 dies that I have listed. You may have a few "new" ones there!

John

[Bob P]

I will do that John. I also have a few 1998 Wide AMs including one that I had slabbed. This one has the Phantom D I believe and came back PCGS MS66RD. I pulled a bunch more 98, 99, and 2000 coins from some circ bags yesterday. Once I go through them, I will get with you about sending them over. By the way, do you have any info on the 92/92D close AM?

[coppercoins]

Hi John...I extend a personal welcome. Excited to have you here!

I persoanlly cannot be of much use in the wide-AM thing. Having lived in Missouri for 10 years prior to moving to Florida two months ago, all I ever saw in circulation was D mint cents...and never found a D mint wide AM.

My experience on-hand with wide AM cents is extremely limited. I have cherried one from dealer inventory at a show (dated 2000). That's it. I have never found one in circulation. To me they all seem to be extremely rare.

Of course, then again, my luck seems to be very dry with a lot of different things that others seem to be able to find without a lot of effort. I would say that I have been through close to 1.5 million cents under a loupe or scope in my lifetime, and have found but one single CUD (1972D reverse), and have yet to find a single example of 1939P-1DO-001 (DDO-001), even though Bob has over a dozen of them to his credit looking through a comparable number of coins.

I have, however, been very lucky with other finds, so I'm not completely glum. I have cherried over two dozen small date 1970S cents, both proof and mint state, and have found BU examples of 1943D RPM#1...go figure.

[doubledguy]

Hi Bob & Chuck,

To the best of my knowledge only 1 single 1992 P-Mint die has been found with the Close AM and likewise just one 1992 D-Mint die with the Close AM. I haven't personally seen any specimens of either one so I can't confirm that imformation.

I would absolutely love to see specimens of those two so that I could get my own photos of the varieties and any significant die markers. Same is true of the Proof Close AM varieties.

Chuck, it's nice to hear from you on these as well. You are right! It's very difficult to make any sense out of how and what we find when we start searching. The searching is fun however, and now that I am retired from teaching, I hope to do a lot more of it myself.

John

[Bob P]

John,
You may get your wish sooner than later. I have received an email from R. Cromwell of Utica NY. He claims to have a 1992P Close AM and wants it verified. I am making arrangements for him to send it. I will ask if he is willing to send it to other attributors so that we can all get to see this one and photograph it. Of course I will need to guarantee that it will be sent by the most secure means if he agrees. I would like all those interested in seeing it to get a chance to do just that. I will let you know when he replies to my email.

[Bob P]

I just got the return email from R Cromwell, and this is what he said:

Dear Mr. Piazza,
I will take your advice and send this coin to PCGS for authentication. When it comes back, I will be happy to send it to you to look at. As far as sending it to others, I am willing to trust your judgment as long as the proper care is taken for it. All I request is that I know where it is being sent to. Maybe you can ask your friends to send me emails when they get it and send it back out again?

R. Cromwell

PS I had no idea this thing may be so rare. I thought there were probably thousands of them out there.

[doubledguy]

Hello Bob,

That will be fantastic. Of course I would treat it with utmost care. I'll be looking forward to seeing it. Chances are that the die that struck these ran a full die life so it is likely that there are over a million of these out there based on average die life.

Even if that is the case, there were over 4.6 billion 1992 P-Mint cents struck so if just a single die was used, these critters are still extremely rare!

John

[Dick]

Have any "D" wide "A-M" cents found, of ANY of the four dates mentioned? Thanks,
Dick

[doubledguy]

Hi Dick,

For 1992 the normal cirulation strike coins and the normal proof coins have the Wide AM. The rare one that has been found is a 1992 P-Mint cent with the Close AM design that started in 1993. Likewise, a 1992-D has also been found with the Close AM.

In 1993 the Close AM was used on both circulation strikes and proofs. If any Wide AM cents are found for that date (none have been so far), they would be the rarity for that date.

In 1994 the Mint started using the Close AM for circulation strike coins and the Wide AM for proof coins.

In 1998, 1999, and 2000 some circulation strike coins were made with dies that had the proof style (Wide AM) reverse.

Also, at least one 1998-S proof die is known to have the circulation style Close AM and also at least one 1999-S proof die is known to have the Close AM. The proofs are supposed to have the Wide AM. These are extremely rare as proof dies are only used to strike about 3,000 coins before they are retired from us.

To date no known D-Mint Wide AM varieties are known for 1998, 1999, or 2000 and I suspect that none will ever be found. In 1996 the Denver Mint opened a new die shop and started producing the D-Mint dies there. Philadelphia still makes all of the dies for the p-Mint coins and for the proof coins. Since the Wide AM is the proof style and the proof dies are made in Philadelphia, it is highly unlikely that any D-Mint Wide AM varieties would exist for dates after 1996.

John

[eagames]

There were atleast a few more close 92-P found.

One the finders of the close 92-P posts on the site, maybe he will chime in. I think he found 2 and they graded MS64 and an AU58 I think from NGC?

It's interesting there are more than one die for 1999.

[doubledguy]

Hello Ed,

When I mentioned that "The rare one that has been found is a 1992 P-Mint cent with the Close AM design that started in 1993. Likewise, a 1992-D has also been found with the Close AM" I should have specified that I was talking about one 1992 P-Mint die and one 1992-D Mint die.

I have no doubt that other specimens will be found from those dies. They more than likely ran a full die life so there is a good chance that there are a million or more specimens of each of those waiting to be found. At least there is hope that we can find one if we are persistent enough.

Do you know if any of the other 92-P specimens that you refer to were from a different die than the first one found?

Hopefully the finders will chime in. I'd love to get photos for my files.

Thanks for the info!!!

John