1972 P DDO unsure

Rhubarb · Senior Member

It appears to be Doubling on the letter's in the Motto. Am I correct?

Dick · Expert Member

It looks lioke pushed metal. I could be wrong/ my eyes aren't the best they once were, so don't take it as final.
Dick

eagames · Expert Member

Yes you see some doubling on it.

It's master die doubling, that is the old DDO die-5 (not to be confused with the new die-5) that old one was de-listed since it is master die doubling.

You can see it best on the U of trust, N of in or B of liberty.

It's neater than some collectable varieties but has little premium since there are so many of these.

If you have CDs book (older book) he has a pic of this and info about it on page 239.

Smile

Dick · Expert Member

Ed, It is a different type of douibling than we normally see, that is why I thought it might be MD, as in having been pushed. It also reminds me of the DDD type, because it is on both sides, or looks like it to me. I noticed the top part, and then saw the lower areas that seemed to be "sort of MD",but at the same time, not, so I left an escape route! thanks for the renminder.
Dick

coop · Expert Member

The reason we know it is master die doubling is that from all three mints you can find these. If it were one die hubbed with different hubs/moved hubs creating a doubling then it is a doubled die. But because there are many from each mint, it was hubs made from a doubled master die creating many hubs like that. A high percentage of the 1972 P/D/S Cents have this master die doubling.

Rhubarb · Senior Member

I was wondering Coop! I have noticed it on all the 72's. Only the MM was punched. What do you guy's do with the Hub Doubled Cents? That was my next question about all the 72's having Master Die Doubling. Thank's to all.

David

coop · Expert Member

Hub doubled I save in a book for sale later. The master die doubling go back into circulation so the next finder can ask the same questions you asked. Wink

Rhubarb · Senior Member

Thank you Coop. Now I am confused. Hub doubling vs. Master Die Doubling. What is the difference in knowing the difference? There seem's to be a cycle that I'm unaware of.

David

coop · Expert Member

Hub doubling during the making of a die is what makes a doubled die. The hub not falling in the same location (Rotated/to the right left, up down) Hub wear/different hub making one impression on time and a second hub used for the second/third hubbing. As die wear with age, the hubs that create dies also wear. Thus making longer edge devices than a previous hubbing or wider or closer toward center for a newer hub being used. Those are the ones we are looking for. The stronger the spread, the more valuable the coin from that die will be. Thus the deference in prices like the 1955, 1972, 1995 and 2006 doubled dies. Spread and popularity create the demand for them. We just have to find them. Besides the ones I mentioned there are thousands of other ones that are not as strong that also catch interest.

Rhubarb · Senior Member

Thank you again Coop. Does anyone know exactly how many Hubs were made during 1972?

coppercoins · Site Admin

The doubling shown in the first post here is master die doubling, as stated earlier. This is caused by the same method that makes doubled dies, but in master die doubling it happens on the master die, which makes many working hubs, which in turn make many working dies. Each working die carries the same design as its predecessors, thus hundreds of working dies ended up with this hub doubling on them. With each die making 500,000 coins or more, it's easy to see that hundreds of millions of coins were made using dies with this same doubling...rendering it worthless.

Master die doubling is the same thing as hub doubling, because hub doubling is what created the doubling on the master die. The problem with these is the stage in the process at which it occurred - reproduced too many times to have any value.

How many dies were used in 1972? Hundreds...probably not a thousand. My best guess would be 500-700. I know there were 363 dies made to be used on cents in 1956, if that gives you any idea.

eagames · Expert Member

David,

The main differance is that since a master had it then many dies were made from that master so many dies have the same doubling. They realy are like the rare hub doubled die coins (in characteristics) except since it gets so many dies it becomes not rare.

If every coin has the same doubling nobody will pay extra for it.