1954 PCGS MS66 RED

ken · Senior Member

Hope all of you are doing well.Reading Chucks' book(VERY INFORMATIVE) that I recieved last week,I came to the 1954 issues and found the rariety of this date (P mint) in high grades as I bought this coin a few weeks ago for about $23.00.I checked PCGS web site and found it lists for $450.00 in this grade,while the d mint coin is $55 and the s coin is a mere $35.Finding this out,I am suprised the seller delivered it to me for such a low price compared to it's supposed value.I also think however that this coin is overgraded.Look at the obverse left side.Looks mushy and there are quite a few hits on this coin.As is the same on the reverse close to the rim.Looks like tiny bubbles that you see on post 82 zinc cents.Could this be a one of those fake slabs from China Question

Hologram is intact.The white specks/marks are not on the coin. LMK what you folks think.Thank you,Ken

eagames · Expert Member

The cert number checks out.

Some of what look like hits are marks on the plan that the strike did not get rid of. That might have helped the grade. I have a lot of raw ones that look as nice but I bet if I had them graded they'd come back 65. These get moon money in 67. I think you did good getting it for what you paid.

ken · Senior Member

Hi Ed,Yea these get $15,000 in 67.How did you check the cert # Question

Need to be a member of pcgs Question

Mine has expired.Thank you for your reply Ed.Have a great day Exclamation

coppercoins · Site Admin

Some of the marks, maybe, but not all...

I personally see this as a lower end MS65RD coin and would grade it as such - the hits on the reverse are almost too severe for a 65 grade. So I guess when I offer one that's a true MS65 someone might want to snag it up and see if it grades MS66...nahhh! Actually I think they just missed this one, I usually don't see such overgrading by PCGS in more valuable coins.

With that to wit, the MS66 value is set a bit high. I would think $200-$300 would be its upper limit, but then again who am I to say?

Personally, and I don't mean to offend at all - I see a $5 coin in a $200-$300 holder. It would be very tough to sell to anyone who actually looks at the coin and knows what they are seeing.

ken · Senior Member

Hi Chuck,I have to agree with you.The reverse hits are a bit severe mainly on the letter O on one and it shouldn't have goten the 66 grade,but as you said "who am I to say".The fields are very clean though.Just one hit on reverse going se near the crossbar on the E in one and 2 field hits on obverse.Maybe a high end dealer submitted it and got a break on the grade.I'll leave it up to the future grandkids to figure out as it stays with me for now Laughing

eagames · Expert Member

Ken,

You don't need to be a member, you can use this same link and enter any cert number. I like it since it also gives you the price-guide info.

http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/71039781.html

I agree with CD that the coin looks more like a 65 and the price listed is high.
Something that helps your coins value is that people trying to put together registry sets want that coin in 66 or above. Even if it's overgraded they still pay extra to fill that spot in their sets.

You can plug in the surrounding cert numbers and see what was sent in with your coin. They had 6 1954 cents that graded 66 red.

http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/71039776.html
http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/71039777.html
http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/71039778.html
http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/71039779.html
http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/71039780.html
http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/71039781.html (your coin)

One caution! Don't assume they only sent those 6 coins and all got 66 red. It could be an old bulk order where they had a minimum grade so only the 66s got in holders.

ken · Senior Member

Thanks Ed.I saved the link in my favs for future coins.Is there anywhere there that tells you when it was sent in(date)?

eagames · Expert Member

I'm not sure how to check the date but your holder is the vesion without a bar code on the front, I think that's a few years ago. Smile

GarryN · Expert Member

A grader probably had a small stack of '54's and looked at each for about 2 seconds.

hasfam · Veteran Member

I've been messing around with coins since the late 60's, buying, selling, collecting...just having fun and in this entire time I have yet to buy or sell one slabbed coin. I think I have actually held one in my hand less than a 1/2 doz times. I just stay away from them. I understand why there are coins graded by 3rd parties and that's a good thing... up to a point I think. But I also know that my collecting and budget has never gone past the EF40-45 level and I know what that grade looks like so I have always bought raw. When i think of the premium I would have to pay for the slab, I could spend the money for a slightly higher grade coin raw...maybe.
I know the grading companies are not infallible, as we can see from the example above, but their influence in the collectors market is unbelieveable. How often do any of us just see the Printing above the slab that says MS67 or whatever, the cert # and pop count and not actually look at the coin like in the ol' days. Looking at it not only for eye appeal, minute flaws, color etc but making a determination whether this coin would "fit" asthetically in with the rest of my dansco or whitman collection.
Perhaps, if I ever win the big lotto I will look at these differently and will buy only rare MS68-69's that are beautifully encapsulated by ythe most finest reputable grading company there is. But again, knowing me, I would just get it home and crack it open so I could hold, and look and compare and enjoy it.
my 2cents worth
Rock

coppercoins · Site Admin

Rock,

Your point is very well taken, and I have mixed feelings about the grading companies too. I personally don't buy them, and have very few of them. One thing I would do, however, is buy sight unseen any die varieties that I need that are slabbed with die numbers at a reasonable price. Most of the time they get the die numbers closer than the average Joe does, so for the most part I trust this part of the slabbing industry.

While buying MS66 graded coins for $100, but buying a slabbed MS67 coin for $10,000 completely escapes my logic, I can see a good reason for a number of the more valuable coins being encapsulated.

First, they are better protected than in a flip. No question about that.

Second, they keep unknowledged collectors from being ripped off by unscrupulous dealers...most of the time.

Third, they provide a marketable item for collectors' heirs who don't know anything about coins. If they have a 1909S VDB cent that's nice and red, a dealer might get away with buying it as MS63RD, while in a PCGS holder as MS65RD there's an automatic $3,000 bargaining chip for the non-collector selling the coin.

And last, they serve as a good tool for people to learn to grade. While a certain percentage of them are just 'off', there are enough relatively well graded coins out there to use as a tool in learning what the grading companies see as being different grades. I'll be quite candid to let you know that this is how I strengthened my grading skills...looking at hundreds and hundreds of slabbed coins and guessing the grade. I kept at it until I was good enough to pull off at least 80%. Now I get more than 90% correct.

So while there may be some bad parts about slabbing, it's not all bad.

hasfam · Veteran Member

Chuck,
Points well taken and like I said before, I understand why there are 3rd party grading companies. I just don't think they quite accomplish what a lot of us hoped they would in the beginning, which is mainly consistency in grading standards. Each company maybe consistant in it's grading but not all companies are consistant with each other.

If my budget allowed for it, I'm sure I would be buying some slabs if only to do what you did, to hone my grading skills by example. But neccessity made me learned to grade for myself over the years, mostly by trial and error and a lot of help from other collectors and dealers. I must say that anything MS is out of my league as far as grading. I'll call something mint state but I would be a fool to try to put a number on it.

Again, thanks for the view points especially the one regarding protecting people from unscrupulous dealers and for learning the finer points of grading.
Rock

GarryN · Expert Member

Its not only the grading that people are complaining about. At the Vamworld.com site, people in the forum there are reporting many instances where NGC (allegedly) is getting VAM attributions wrong. That is a huge problem when attributed coins are being sold on the on-line auctions services, particularly Teletrade and ebay. Yesterday, someone noticed a wrong VAM attribution on a coin on the David Lawrence site.

http://www.vamworld.com/message/view/home/10912524

eagames · Expert Member

I also try to cherry pick from slabs, a lot of coins get graded but not attributed. If you look at enough of them you can find some varieties in slabs.

Smile

hasfam · Veteran Member

"...instances where NGC (allegedly) is getting VAM attributions wrong."
It seems to me there should be a follow-up checking by a second person to confirm the accuracy of attribution, especially on coins and varieties that are significant in price and rarity. I know this is redundant, but it wouldn't take long if the information needed to check is already setup in a database.

Perhaps someday attributing varieties will be like identifying fingerprints. A coin will be scanned and the image will search a large central database for a match. Every company who wants access will pay a yearly fee.

Rock