1954 PCGS MS66 RED

[Dick]

Rock, I agree with your thnking. There is such a database, (CC.com), and it is my understanding that works are underway to increase the size, and coverage as well, as we speak. Chuck can tell you all about it. He is the "man" with the load on his back. If it comes to a membership fee, later on he can count on mine from day one. I have noticed many members from other forums with questions along that same line, and eventually, you see the new mwmbers being greeted, and welcomed aboard.
A database such as you mention would be a very good thing for the puurpose you mention, as well as the ability to post, and have scanned for id. the resultant info would serve to verify ones coin, and also to aid in the inventory of ones collection, as far as varieties, etc, are concerned. The value would be enormus to the membership, and definitely worth every cent of the membership fees. IMHO.
Dick

[hasfam]

Hi Dick,
I hear what you're saying. Right now CC.com is definately the place to go for the variety collector, but I would like to see everyone across the board, including 3rd party grading companies subscribe to one central database. Maybe it will be CC, it seems logical to me. There is definately a long course of evolution in this hobby due to come which is never easy because of so many different subjectives, ego's, interpretations etc. I do believe that Chuck is young, knowledgable and dedicated enough to have a major influence in the hobby's future with this ground breaking site. There are others here as well with great knowledge and influence and I'm pretty excited about the potential for the growth of this hobby.
Rock

[Dick]

Rock, You know this site is primarily dedicated to the copper coins, and that alone is a major effort, as well as a major source of info in this respect. I haven't been a member that long, but since becoming a member, I have learned a great deal more about coin collecting. before, I collected world coins, and as a project about the same time as the movie, "Around the world in 80 days". My project was a large picture of the world, wirh coins and a small note about 80 countries, around the world. It is in Constantinople, Turkey, as far as I know. I sold it to another memberin the mid-sixties, just before I retired, and went to Mexico. Naturally a Mexican type collection emerged, and when I returned to the U.S., It sold to "feed the kids"! And so it goes. A later move back to Mexico resulted in a date/type collection, and with a grocery store as a full time occupation, I gathered quite a large cccum,ulation of coins , circulated, stashed, and BU. The latter were bought at the bank for making change. A change in the health of my mother, caused a sale of the store, and move back to the U.S. again. This time it has been permanent. I was inactive for many years in the hobby, and when I found out my youngest son was sellijng coins on ebay, I got back into the collecting, but shortly after was introduced to this site, and variety collecting. As I said before, I have learned a great deal here, and owe my current pleasure to people like Chuck, and Bob, and so many others, in many forums. This has been very lenghty, but, then if you look at my numbers, and date of membership, you can draw your own conclusions! LOL. I spend my waking hours in this pastime. I am one of the fortunate ones who didn't lose their job. I am too old to hire. In fact, I haven't worked in my "trade", since '81. I retired in '63, from the Navy. The choice was there, find something to do, or slowly die, in an old rocking chair. I plan on being around for many years to come. "Bad news" for my heirs! Not all of them will be around when I eventually go. Sorry about that!
Dick

[eagames]

Rock,

Not sure if it pertains to your thought but...

Did you know some TPGs like ANACs (not sure about any other) will attribute your coins with coppercoins designations? If you request a coppercoins number they will either use that number or a cross to Conecas number. I have a lot of odd varieties attributed that way. Also I've seen that if they aren't sure about an attribution ANACs will send your coin to some of the best experts in the field and also if you work with them in some cases you can submit through those experts and they will send it on to ANACs for the holder and grading with their attribution. I've seen almost no mistakes.

PCI also had some deals where they worked with some of the experts but I'm not sure if they still do it or if people still use it now that ebay won't even let their coins be listed as certified coins.

I think PCGS and NGC are great and respected at grading coins but ANACs is (IMHO) the best for variety attributions. I'm not selling it, that's just my feeling from years of seeing correct atributions by them. PCGS and NGC will attribute only some of the big well known varieties.

VAMs are a different deal! They are not the same as other varieties. Other varieties like what you see here on coppercoins are true DIE varieties either DDOs, DDRs or RPMs. VAMs can be DDOs, DDRs, RPMs but they can also be die chips, cracks, clashes, rust pits, die damage and things I would call die states. That creates some ambiguity, the SAME die in a different state may not be the same VAM because a crack might only appear in some die states. Varieties (in my thinking)are on the die when made not a die state of a die. I'm not knocking VAMs, people might laugh at the minor varieties that I collect but I see VAMs are a world of their own and they're different to attribute since is not always based on every coin from a certain die in any state being the same variety. VAMers will think of them as VAM varieties. It's a different thing than what most cent variety collectors call die varieties.

[hasfam]

Dick,

I am truly glad you are a part of this forum and hope you will be here for many more years to come. I know about stopping and starting and having to sell the coins to feed the kids. Your story is inspiring but mostly you are inspiring. Thank you for your time and presence here.

Eagames,

Thanks for the interesting information. I didn't know most of that and will definately take it all into consideration when the time comes for me to look at TPGs as a part of my collecting process. It sounds like you have had plenty of experience with them already. I suppose like anything else we take the good and the not so good and make it work for us. My vision was probably a utopian one at best, but you just never know how things will evolve. When I was building a collection in 1980-83 I would have never guessed what the hobby would be like 25 years later because of TPG's and the internet.

[coppercoins]

Just clearing up a few things...

1. I do not have in plans or in the works a system devised to detect varieties and spit out a die number. I'm good, but not nearly that good. This system might be possible with current technology, but would be FAR more expensive than I could afford here, and would be WAY beyond my programming capabilities.

2. ANACS does recognize coppercoins numbering if requested. PCI no longer exists, so their 'signature series' is out. I have been working with the successor of their machinery, Dominion Grading Service, to continue doing signature series coins with them. I have to call the soon to discuss it in detail.

3. I highly doubt there will EVER be one single system that all TPGs use for die variety identification. In a perfect world this would be great, but it's just not realistic to expect it. Our system here is far too involved for any of the 'generalist' TPGs to bother with - like PCGS. They are not in the business of identifying die varieties, they are in the business of grading high end coins. We are on the very bottom of the food chain as far as value goes with PCGS and NGC. The other grading companies need all the help they can get to parallel these two, and are willing to go the extra mile for us little guys. There's more of a chance of getting them to listen...but a single system between them is still decades out.

[Dick]

Some of you will remember the "fingerprint", security sensor that some of the computers had, many years ago. That was what had me thinking of the scanner-ID of varieties aspect. I don't know how it worked, orher than by close contact, like the 'touch-screens do. I imagine there might be software currently, that could be adapted for the purpose, but, as Chuck says, "it would be very expensive". It would be nice, but. It would tend to take away the "thrill of the hunt, or search", making it "just another way of taking inventory". Back to work, again, with the best source available: "our forum"!
Dick

[Dick]

Ed, I was just reading this thread, and say this: If I had some experience in the hobby, to where I knew what all the "words meant", I would likely use the TPG "system" to slab some of my better coins, but when one is as green as I was, and then tink they might get some coins slabbed, so they would sell on ebay, and maybe make a couple hundred dollars, (oh yes), only to be "shot down", like an old stray dof, makes me boil, even to this day!.
Speaking candidly, I wouls rather see a system where all coins, no matter what , or which denomination, all go thru a scanning processer, and thatTAKES OUT the HUMAN aspect from the grading, and attribution. No two see alike, so there will always be that difference.
I think Chuck was thinking of changes, and services to the site, are different than the ones mentioned by myself, and others, to wit: the inclusion of the FE/IHC pictures, etc. Being "copper, (among orher alloys) they would merit a section. Traildies.com is another aspect, and could be included, for thesame reasoning. There is a section for each, presently. ( Chuck, if you are listening, this is not a high priority project. Your health, and welfare, yes!), and we want you around to enjoy what you, and others have given us.
May you and yours, all have a very Merry Christmas, and a very healthy, and restful new year! Money isn't everything, Health IS!
Dick