Australia 1922 threepence with reverse mark

[KurtS]

Finding this coin in the shop today, I was immediately struck by something in the shield I've never seen before--a distinct, raised line in the lower part of the shield. To my eyes, that doesn't appear to be a die chip, but a mark that was somehow impressed into the die across several shield elements, independent of the hubbing. I'm checking with Australians to see if this a recognized die variety, and I thought collectors here might enjoy seeing this too.

[coppercoins]

Looks like a heavy tooling mark in the die. It's not a crack, break, or some other machine caused depression...this one was done by someONE.

[Dick]

Kurt, could this be a sruck-thru? what do the "cross-over" areas look like? Any sign of demarkation, indicating an object had been in the chanber when the hammer fell?
Dick

[Dick]

Kurt, could this be a sruck-thru? what do the "cross-over" areas look like? Any sign of demarkation, indicating an object had been in the chanber when the hammer fell?
Later; I just noticed that there is only one "Roo". The other is an EMU?
Dick

[KurtS]

Chuck, thanks for your input!

Dick, a struck-thru? Dunno...does it seem to be a foreign object which has been pressed into the coin? Notice how it's underneath the shield elements in places?

Yep--that's a Roo and Emu.

[eagames]

I think it's not a struck through because struck through would make a missing area or depressed area not a raised line.

It doesn't look like a foreign object because the raised areas go through it.

It looks more like a tooling mark or damage like a gouge in the die sort of like the extra leaf on the Wisc quarters but it's a straight line.

[KurtS]

Eagames, agreed--I think this mark points back to the die.

One interesting note is that for 1922, there's an overdate which the Royal Australia Mint considers a die chip--which I find curious because such a chip appears to cross the 2 into the fields in several places. Like my coin, I don't see how this would happen on its own during striking.

[Dick]

Kurt, I agree! I don't asee how this can be a die chip. It is too symetrical for a chip! Amnd the position is precise. Over-date, beyond a doubt. Of course you might have a '21, which, with an overlay, would prove beyond a doubt.
Dick

[eagames]

Interesting, it doesn't look like a chip.

It's symetrical and the right location but it looks less wide than the 1 and maybe slightly curved.

To me it looks more like a gouge or tooling mark than a chip.

[KurtS]

Firstly, I should note the last photo is not of my coin. I wish I had one, but that is very rare--and presently considered an overdate.

Eagames, yes--I'm intrigued as to the possible scenario behind the 1922/1, whether it involves a second hubbing of the die, a repunching of the date area, or some other explanation such as a tool mark? I have seen overlays on an Aussie site that suggest a 1921 die was rehubbed for 1922. Still, I find it hard to make a definite conclusion from those pics. Whatever the cause, the coin is recognized as an overdate in Australia, and sells for $10,000+ in Fine (Aussie grading scale).

Still, gotta admit I'm a little curious how the mark on my coin has a similar thickness and depth as the mark on the 1922/1. More than likely, there is no relationship whatsoever.

[Dick]

Kurt, after reading about the decision, and "evidence" given by the RAM, I agree that the photos they show, don't "cut the mustard"! I still believe that an overlay would give more conclusive indications of the 'yay, or nay" of the case. maybe coop could comment.
Dick

[eagames]

Sort of like those Wisc quarters.
We see it, we wonder how it got there or why. It's hard to say for sure and for years people will wonder and in any case it's a coin people want so it has value.

[Dick]

I tried to get Photoshop to function, but never got past the first image. Will have to devote more time to that end. with the two coins, ( the '22, and the 22/21), there should be some way to compare. Frustrated,
Dick

[KurtS]

Agreed--it's sure interesting to consider the source of these marks. Good luck with PS--I'd like to do an overlay too, but I'm first looking for a 1922/1 in MS grade (if it exists) to see if there's any more evidence of the underlying digit.

[Dick]

Kurt, I suggest you don't hold your breath until you find one. As for me, I'll accept the photos on the link. will be as close to any of the coins as I expect to get. Therefor they will ave to do. Besides, I tried PS again, and still can't find the (control+Z) to Fix my boo-boo's.
Dick