Is it possible

tiggerlilly · New Member

Is it possible to have a double die variety and strike doubling on the same coin?
Oh... by the way .. HI!! And thank you for letting me sit in and soak up some of your expertize. Just to warn you, I am blond, so I might ask repeatedly before it sinks in... Just type slow .. I'll get it sooner or later....lol Laughing

tiggerlilly(you can call me tig)
No expectations and your never let down...

eagames · Expert Member

Tig,

Yes it does happen.
Any coin can have strike doubling so it can also happen to doubled die varieties.

Neat strike doubling adds a little interest to normal coins but it's sort of a detraction if it's on a nice variety coin.

If you can get a photo of the coin your looking at that helps.

Welcome Smile

tiggerlilly · New Member

I didn't have a particular coin in mind. I was just trying to get the sd vs. double die concept to make sense.. I read somewhere that if you see doubling on both sides of the coin, then you probably don't have a double die coin.. But I can see how this could get complicated.. both in the mix.. Is there a video of the entire coinage process? From start to finish? I am an artist and I absorb more visually.
Like I said tttyyypppeee real slow .. I'll get it... Confused

Dick · Expert Member

Welcome aboard,! Tig, you aren't the first 'blonde", and you won't be the last! Enjoy the company. There is someone who can answer any question you carre to ask, so domn't be afraid it is a "dumb" question. There ain't no such animal!
Dick

eagames · Expert Member

Tig,

I should have added:

The doubled die coins have doubling that was caused when the die was made. The die is like a negative mold of the coin. They make the die by using a hub which is positive, if they press the hub more than once and it's not in the same position it creates a doubled die. All coins made with that die will have that same doubling.

Strike doubling is from something not being tight or bouncing when they strike the actual coins. It can happen when they're using a perfect die or a doubled die. Since something is not tight it might show on both sides.

Sometimes they have a tv show on discovery that shows about how dies and coins are made.

Dick · Expert Member

Tig, I would add to Ed's info re the minting process. The national Geographic chamnnel has several videos of the minting of different coins. Depending where you are, it may be channel 276, (DirectV).
Dick

tiggerlilly · New Member

Ok that helped thanks eagames and you to Dick...

So The obverse is struck with one die. Except for the earlier cents. They were struck with another for the date and yet another for the mint mark, correct?

Was the 1919 wheat struck with two dies for the date? or was the date put there by striking the coin twice with the same die?

TU
Tig

eagames · Expert Member

All Lincoln cents were struck with an obv and rev die.

What you're thinking of must be coins with punched dates.
BUT even those are struck with only obv and rev dies.

The date punching was done on the dies for Indian cents (not on the coins). So they had a hub without a date and used it for making the dies then they punched the date into the dies. So it's still 2 dies, it's just that the date is not on the hub so it needed to be added to each die later. It was done that way on Indian cents and sometimes you can see re-punched dates if they goofed and punched it more than once not exactly the same. On Lincoln cent dies the date was NOT hand punched.

Mintmarks on cents are the same deal. Up to 1990 they made the die with the date then by hand they punched the mintmarks on the die. 1990 and later they made the dies with the mintmark so there is no hand punching and no RPMS (re-punched mintmarks) to collect from 1990-present.

So the 1919 cent is struck with 2 dies.
When they made the dies they punched the mintmark D or S or nothing if it was P. You could find a 1919 from a die with a repunched mintmark but not a repunched date.

coop · Expert Member

I think I have the best avatar for tiggerlilly.

Dick · Expert Member

Tig, Ed has said much better than I.
dick

tiggerlilly · New Member

Sorry my chores took longer then I thought..
Like the avatar.. How do I go about applying it?

Back to coins.. I have a 1919 that has 1909 image underneath the date. And there are recognized coins that have different number under the dates, right? how does that happen? for it to be a clash 10 years apart it a little far fetched..

Tig

eagames · Expert Member

Since the dates were not punched on the dies it can't be a repunched date.

LOL... if it was an error where they struck a 1919 on an already struck 1909 it would be rare and unique but odds are against that. Razz

Chances are it's something that damaged in it's 90 years of use that made it look that way.

Smile

coppercoins · Site Admin

Welcome Tiggerlilly..

Two different dates on one coin would generally be caused by an errant date punch - one date digit punched on the die over another. But this practice ended with the Indian Head cent in 1909. All Lincoln cent dates were part of the engraving that was traced to make the dies.

If you have a coin that displays a 1919 and 1909 date, you have a coin that has been altered by something to look that way.

tiggerlilly · New Member

I see... so it could be a carving mark or from cleaning/repair..
So the ghost image of V.D.B. would be from where they took it off of the dies.. Not removing it well enough... ????
What causes the S/D ? are the dies reused ??? How many dies are used in each date run?
I know lots of questions.... My son would say "Mom, Google is your best friend"

eagames · Expert Member

I'll try