1909S doubled L initial?

MorgansRmine · Advanced Member

Don't know the protocol about lifting pictures off of someones site, so you will have to take a look at Wexlers die varieties to compare this. He has one listed for the 1909 that appears to be very simular to this one. Opinions?

Dick · Expert Member

This is the first time I have seen the "L", to tell how it is oriented!
As far as 'lifting" pgotos is concerned, I believe it is legal, as far as the use being for one's personal info, and use. But It can be touchy, if an image is used under certain conditions, which suggest it is your own photo, and you claim to be the originator of the image portrayed. Crudely put, but I think you understand. An example of what i just said, occurs on ebay very ofrtn, by certain sellers, portraying the image of the"coin', as theirs, when actually, it was lifted", to enhance the image of the coin they want to sell. If I were to Use a photo from some other source, rather than mine, I would give all credit due, and make no claims of propiety. IMHO.
Dick

Dick · Expert Member

This should have deleted, but didn't. Can you do the honors, Bob? Please. hate it when an edit turns out to be dupe!
Thank you!
Dick

KurtS · Senior Member

Cracking open my Snow guide for 1909, there's a listing for two doubled initials. One is due to master die doubling (Snow-1), and Snow-2 is a DDO which also appears in the legend and the date, because in 1909 the date was hubbed with the rest of the obverse. The doubling on your coin appears to be Snow-2, which we could confirm by seeing a closeup of the date.

GarryN · Expert Member

are we talking about the '09-S?

KurtS · Senior Member

Hmm...my mistake then, because I'm not used to IHCs other than the Philly mint. Laughing

By Snow's book, no varieties are given for the 09-S obverse dies, so perhaps this is one to run by him? Confused

He attributes coins for cheap--$4.

Dick · Expert Member

I hope this doesn't come out triples, again!!!
Looking at the photo, and at ricks book, yes it appears to be doubled, as in the S-1. now if a closeup of the date, and the United st is made, it can be determined if it is the S-2. I can't make out enough of the second image, (photo in the book), because it seems to be incuse, but more likely is an optical illusion.. As far as any doubling there, I can't tell.
Dick

MorgansRmine · Advanced Member

This is the picture from Mr. Wexlers Die variety site. To be used solely for informational purpose.

This picture was just added to his site on Sept 04 2009.

No doubling on my coin that I can find.

This brings up another question. Since Mr. Snow already has two varieties listed, do other experts in the field not add these to there site till they actually see the coin in hand.

KurtS · Senior Member

Checking Snow's online reference, I don't see any varieties listed for the 1909-S. So, I'm going to post a few pics on his forum and see if we can get an answer. Very Happy

MorgansRmine · Advanced Member

Thanks Kurt. My thoughts now are master die doubling. Was SF producing there own dies back in 1909?

KurtS · Senior Member

I'm really unsure of this, since most US coins I collect are 19C. and minted at Philly. You could be right--it may be master die doubling, but my book is unclear for 09-S. I hope Rick Snow replies sometime! Very Happy

KurtS · Senior Member

Rick Snow saw your photos and came up with an explanation. It turns out this coin is an S-2, which sheds light on the mintmark, which didn't look quite right to my eyes. According to Mr Snow, "It's a added mintmark to a 1909 S2." Sorry about that...is this coin slabbed?

Would you mind if I show the pic of the mintmark on another forum? It would be good for collectors to see a comparison.

MorgansRmine · Advanced Member

Kurt, no problem with the pictures. No it's not slabbed, found it in a roll of wheats that I bought for a whopping $1.50.

KurtS · Senior Member

Wow, what a relief! Laughing

eagames · Expert Member

Interesting but it does explain it.
Now if you can get that added S off without damage it will be a neat variety coin.

It brings up a few points. This is why I keep suggesting to Dick and others that even if you hate slabs it's well worth getting a slabbed coin if you ever buy a key coin. It would realy stink to pay big $ and someday find out it was an added S. Also notice nobody looked at that coin and right away noticed the S was fake and we're not as easily fooled as the average collectors (I hope) but we still didn't notice it was added.

It amazes me that when they add them it's hard to see that it's added. This IHC looks very well done, the person that did it sure did it well.

On the IHC it was harder to spot maybe because we see less IHC mintmarks. On the 09-S Lincoln I posted in the other thread it was easier to notice because of the style. Still even after seeing the wrong style it's hard to see that it's not part of the coin.

See the added S Lincoln:
http://www.coppercoins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4606