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 KurtSSenior Member
Posts: 875
Joined: 15 Feb 2008
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 Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:01 pm |
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| Also notice nobody looked at that coin and right away noticed the S was fake |
Honestly, once I saw the S...I had doubts, but I wasn't about to say anything without an expert's confirmation. 
I also pulled some details from certified 1909-S to compare to the coin in question. I've gotten too suspicious about key IHCs, but this could fool a collector who doesn't scrutinize too closely.
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 eagamesExpert Member
Posts: 3013
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:29 pm |
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Great pics!
I gotta say it's a pretty good one, I couldn't make that myself.
Looking close maybe it's slightly too big and the top serif angle is different. I think this one would fool most collectors.
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Ed
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 MorgansRmineAdvanced Member
Posts: 132
Joined: 12 Apr 2009
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:22 pm |
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The S is what made me really look close at this coin. Otherwise I'd have never noticed the doubled L. Didn't quite match up with my other one. Don't know how the mint mark is attached, Acetone soak didn't bother it if it's some kind of glue. Kurt, if I'd have know about the quiz, you could have had this picure also.
Real
Counterfeit
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 DickExpert Member
Posts: 5780
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Location: Rialto, CA.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:21 pm |
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what got my attention was the "S". It just looked too flat, and too fat! I thought the "S" on the "real thng", was more "wirey-looking. I don't if it is ths trumpet tail, or the ball-serif, but it just didn't look right.
Dick
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" Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this bull before".
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KurtSSenior Member
Posts: 875
Joined: 15 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:18 pm |
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Dick,
Contrasted to the real S, the flatness is really noticeable--great shots!  And the top serif is much too weak. Of course, we're going from a great photo...put this coin in a fake PCGS slab, and collectors might not scrutinize the coin like they need to.
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DickExpert Member
Posts: 5780
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Location: Rialto, CA.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:27 am |
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The question I posed was for the posting of the OBV of the coin, with close-up of the DATE, AND the "UNITED ST". If the "U S" shows doubling, then it is the S-2, as has been stated.. The doubling is not on the date.
Dick
_________________
" Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this bull before".
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KurtSSenior Member
Posts: 875
Joined: 15 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:06 am |
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Dick,
I didn't comment on the date because after finding an S-2 for a friend, I was struck by how subtle the doubling shows in the date. You need to get the right light to even see it. I'm not sure how die states affect this. 
I found my closeup of that S-2 (the L was also doubled like the OP's coin)
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DickExpert Member
Posts: 5780
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Location: Rialto, CA.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:01 pm |
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Kurt, this one shows the 1,9,0w,9w. The other one with the double digits shown, did NOT have any indication of RPD. Which, for the moment, I have to leave "as is", because my "wheels" are here, and I have to go. CUL!
LAter: Now I am back, and dinner is ready, so I'll watch the ball game, and eat. Then I'll have to give it the old "college try", and see how much io can get done before midnight!
Dick
_________________
" Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this bull before".
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 GarryNExpert Member
Posts: 1296
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:50 am |
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My understanding of the 1909-S Indian is that there are two styles of mintmarks. One is much more common than the other. I just sold my own 1909 S Indian. It is a PCGS 64 RB and I am grieving. I miss that coin alot. It may still be at the Glenview Coin shop in Glenview IL. if someone wants to call about it.
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KurtSSenior Member
Posts: 875
Joined: 15 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:16 am |
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| My understanding of the 1909-S Indian is that there are two styles of mintmarks. |
Just going by Snow's book, he mentions just one style of mm, but two positions, which may suggest only two reverse dies. He's also questioned whether a 1908-S reverse die was used, but he hasn't seen any proof. But, if you can find an example of that other mm style, please post it. If there is a second type, that would be a very interesting variety!
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GarryNExpert Member
Posts: 1296
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:34 am |
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I have yet to see one, Kurt
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