1858 FE find

[wavysteps2003]

I am all caught up on attributions, so send them down. Thanks.

BJ

[KurtS]

I share the sentiments--there's something odd looking, aside from the surface. I'm used to seeing more complete denticles on the obverse, usually closer to those on the reverse.

[GarryN]

Good to see you back Kurt.

[mojaveblue]

Kurt,

I see what you mean about the difference in denticles, I looked at my photos again.
It may be in BJ's hands by now, I am anxiously waiting to hear any news good or bad. Seems a little strange, but interesting to own a coin made with seemingly a lot of work to be a reproduction. Kinda like a duplicate Van Go or Declaration of INdependance, forgive the spelling.
Of course, the ruse ends with me, it will not be used to dupe anyone beyond this point.
Actually hope if it is a fake, it does not waste much of anyones time.

[KurtS]

Yeah--at first it seems odd that people might make copies of cents. However, if you already own machinery suitable, and your labor costs are low...setup for something that might get $25 apiece on eBay is worth their time. I've read how they put these coins in revolving drums w/abrasives and chemicals to simulate wear/patina and hide poor quality. They seem to be getting better at it too.

[eagames]

It's easy to get a crimping tool and seal the rolls or do it by hand. They can re-use old rolls or rub them on carpet to get the fuzzy paper look. I assume anyone that had truly un-searched rolls of IHCs would search them. If the roll was not searched how would they know it was all IHCs in the first place? I've only ever seen one real OBW IHC roll in my life and it was falling apart.

The ones that raise red flags right away are ones offered with something good on the end like a 1909-s or the reverse of a cent with VDB or say the rolls came from a bank audit etc.... Bidders go crazy and the rolls sell for more than the end coin is worth and might have nothing else good in them. I also don't think it's worth going crazy bidding for supposedly unsearched OBW rolls of 55, 72, 83 cents unless they really look original and are not asking a crazy price. Look at the greysheet, those rolls are not worth big premiums.

Another ploy is they might toss in a fake key like a 1955 DDO or S-VDB or other fake because the buyer will leave feedback that brings in other buyers and they can't complain if it was fake since it was just a random coin in a batch. You also don't know if they had a buddy leaving the feedbacks that say "found a 1909-S VDB". It's like in a western where they fire a shotgun loaded with gold into a mine to salt it to mislead a buyer.

Check out this thread. I put the links in it where you can buy the cheap roll crimper that says "Coin wrapper sealing tool
Closes the open end of a roll of coins just like the bank does"

http://www.coppercoins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2249

[mojaveblue]

Well I was afraid of that, I knew I didnt have the means to crimp a tube, I thought that only the banks had the tooling.
And I don't jump on TV infomercials like some people I know, but it has been exciting doing the few rolls of "OBW" cents. I have found the average cost is more than the value so no more for me.
I just saw an auction on Ebay for I think 5 "OBW" rolls with a IHC on the end of each roll and a steel cent on the other end, Im thinking , wel those may be good, can never have too many IHC and steel, but how can the bank do that if random, it has to be intentional.
And I had been wondering if I searched hard enough, maybe find a store that sells old tubes to get the effect right.
Ed, you mentioned refering to the graysheet, do you know of a way to get free access to that, I have only seen offers if you sign up.

[eagames]

Good point, look at a sellers auctions and if every roll has some goodies on the end you can assume it's not random.

Not sure if every greysheet has rolls or it's only in it on occasions. I try to mooch old greysheets from dealers at shows or at least look up some stuff in their copy.

The yearly book "North American Coins & Prices" (sort of the blue book) does have unc roll prices hidden in it. It's a list in between the mint sets and commemoratives.

[mojaveblue]

I need to get to a coin show soon, good thinking.

[Dick]

Either the "Coins", or the "Coin Prices", have the roll info. I don't remember which one. I used to take blth, because they would also give the Mexican, and also the Canadian prices.. Been a while.

[wavysteps2003]

I wont have to take this one to Randy Campbell; it is real. While the weight is just a bit off (.07 grams) the diameter is correct (19.03 MM).

Looking at the coin, it has been subjected to harsh elements that have aided in the deterioration of the outer surface of the coin giving it the appearance of being made from a sand cast mold. However, there are protected areas on the coins surface that do not show the poke mark affect. As for the size of the denticles, they are normal, just a bit undefined on a few spots. There is evidence that this may have been a struck through a foreign object . There is a double curved dent on the obverse that looks like it could be just that. It does not have the appearance of after strike damage.

The 1896 IHP is indeed what you have indicate it was; a repunched 6 digit to the east. That is F/S-01-1986-301. Nice find. Snow has it listed as the #1 die for 1896.

The South Dakota quarter is in the beginning stages of die deterioration and those are the lines that you are seeing. These radial lines are present on both the obverse and reverse dies.

Thanks for letting me see these coins and again, you have some nice finds.

BJ Neff

[eagames]

Well that was a good outcome

One nice thing about hunting varieties is that even if the coins might already searched you can still find some neat varieties. Many people consider searching as only looking for key dates so there can still be a neat variety.

[Dick]

Ed has a good point. I have bought a LOT of "unsearched wheats, and memorials", and while I never found any DDO/DDR, there were many varieties, so "Unsearched" is actually in the eyes of the seeker.

[coppercoins]

I may be incorrect here, but it is my belief that there is no such thing as a bank wrapped roll of any coinage prior to 1900. Buying a bank wrapped roll of even indian head cents from the 1800s would be a very risky venture.

That plus anything bank wrapped is considered to be fresh, mint state coins. Just because it's in a crimped-end roll doesn't mean anything.

[ken]

You are correct Chuck.You can take coins to most all banks and they will roll them for you,giving the appearance of an original bw roll.However in alot of cases they won't have a Bankname on the wrapper.Just tight shotgun rolls.