2004 Philly ... When does a brake become a Cud or does it?

[pennyhound]

Got one of those dumb questions, ... does a die brake become a cud or is this just something, that I have heard and just excepted it to be fact? Never been quit sure of that one!










More pictures.

He He He, ... got my answer myself: Cud (Slang): A term for a die brake, so called because of the appearance of the raised metal being similar to a 'cud' of chewing tobacco resting on the coin. Evoled because of the mistaken belief by most early collectors that extra metal "splashed" or added on to the coin.

[coppercoins]

You're starting to dip into an area I know little about, so forgive me if I'm off base with this answer...but here's how I heard it:

For a die break to be a CUD it has to be a die break that starts at the rim and finishes at the rim, and all of the "raised" metal has to be from a completely missing part of the edge of the die. Anything else (such as the wonderful progression you show above) is considered to be a "die break" without sharing the term "CUD".

[joeyuk]

That is one hell of a sequence of events. I love it

[pennyhound]

We are both on the same footing here,

My definition comes from:

The Official Identification and Guide Price Guide to Minting Varieties and Errors 5th Edition, March 1991, by Alan Herbert

Maybe someone that has better knowledge in this area ... could clarify.

[Jack]

I hope I do not start something that I can not finish, but here goes:
The Die Break showen on the coin has been refered to by a few collector as an "Interior Cud", it does not however meet the accepted Cud (by most) definition in that the defect is still under the canopy of the Die and does not extend to the Rim.
A Cud is an area on the coin that is the result of a missing part of the edge of the die where the metal of the coin is not formed by the impact of the Die during the strick. By accepted definition the area will extend to the rim of the coin. Note that "die crack" is not refered to here.
A "Retained Cud" is an area on a coin where a Die Crack has formed and can be seen from one place on the coin at the rim to another place on the rim. This die crack is the outline of the initial "Cud" when and if the outlined area breaks off the die.
The area within the outline of the die crack will exhibt the full design on the die.
After the area of the die breaks away all coins struck after the break away will be "Cuds". The Cud can grow as more of the die brakes away.

[Bob P]

The way I understand it...Jack description (and Chuck's for that matter), are the most acceptable and accurate description of a true cud. A die crack or break or chip or whatever is just that....a die crack, break or chip.

[pennyhound]

Interesting (conversations on a cud, definition) "definition/s".
(all of which sound right in one way or another)

Thanks for the input.