1998 close, mid. and wide AM?

Bob P · Site Admin

Hi folks....I think this very topic was addressed here before about a year or so ago, but I can't remember. Anyway, while going through some coins today, I found what I am calling for now a 'mid-AM' coin. The first pic is of a normal close AM 1998P, he second is the mid AM 1998P, and the last pic is of a certified 1998P wide AM. My question, and the topic of discussion here, is whether these are three distinct reverse dies here, with a varying degree of space between the AM of America, or if you would consider the second pic a wide AM. Would love to hear your opinions on this one.

smed · Senior Member

How does FG look on each? That should be a clue as to whether the mid-AM is a business strike or proof reverse.

Matt Dinger · Advanced Member

I would have to say from what I can see the middle coin is the wide AM....but like smed said a scan of the initals would shed some light......I submited one of these to chuck to take a look at...he took some pics and made a page of die markers but I don't know if it still exist

Matt Dinger · Advanced Member

well now that i take a better look the spacing between the ME is different, and another question is that a die crack between the AM???

Gabe · Senior Member

Bob, I have encountered a couple of what you call 'mid-AM'. The initials for the 'mid-Am' that I have found were of the type 1 reverse, so I regarded them as type 1 reverse cents.

The E of America in the 'mid-AM' cent that you have photographed is the same E design for a type 1 cent, and not for a type 2.

Im not sure if the 'mid-AM' are design changes, or just die wear or something like that. Maybe someone else in the board knows.

Matt Dinger · Advanced Member

i think die wear might have something to do with it.....as the dies get worn they start to spread out...maybe this die just spread in the right place....very intresting.....that might be something worth researching....

Bob P · Site Admin

You guys are amazing...a boat load of replies in just an hour. Well, Smed hit it right on the head when he asked what the designers initials looked like....and they are of a type 1 coin, not a type 2.
For Matt...there is no die crack between the letters...only a pretty badly beat up coin. In addition, as you mentioned, as a die wears out, the letters get fatter and more stretched out...not thinner in certain places, and the wear is pretty much uniform on the coin...wouldn't you think?
For Gabe...I thought you may have brought this up before. I do remember seeing it somewhere before. I believe someone else may have brought it up on a 1959 cent as well. It sucks to get old(er) ....[Don't say it Smed Laughing

] and start forgetting things.
Either way guys...I am of the opinion that we have two separate type one reverses. I have seen VEDS 1998P coins where the AM touch...and I have since looked through many 1998 coins,without finding another Mid-AM coin.
As you guys are searching through your coins, kind of keep it in the back of your heads to see if you can find more of these mid AM coins. I would like to get a count of how many may be out there, and possiibly do more research on this intriguing mystery.

pennyhound · Veteran Member

Check these out, got the initials showing here ...

BTW ... just to update,

A "1999S Proof Set" just sold on E-Bay for $910.00 that had a "Close AM" on a Proof Penny, that was quoted as being talked about in one of the Coin Paper/s (think it was Coin World, not sure, lol that age thangy) auction ended, on 18 April 2005.

Happy hunting.

smed · Senior Member

Jack · Veteran Member

Bob from the pictures posted it appears that you have a wider seperation between the M and E in the "Mid" coin (pic 2) than in pic 3. At my age you guys are youngsters and it could be just these old eyes!

pennyhound · Veteran Member

Look at the intitials ... does the "G" loop as in the typyed (Capital G looping back to the left) or does its go straight up?

If it loops back, its a Wide AM if it gos straight up ... its a Close AM.

Even old eyes like mine came see that ... lol.

Wide AM ... Initials

coppercoins · Site Admin

You have to remember that the letters are beveled, and with a weaker hubbing the close AM would have a split between the letters - and that's what I think you have, not a third die type. I have seen a number of reverses that touch, barely touch, barely don't touch, and have a little space. The important part is that they all come from the same hub design. Obviously, as stated before, the wide AM design is a completely different design with many elements that are different, not just the AM.