Cent legislation in the House
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wavysteps2003Expert Member
Posts: 1344
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
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 Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 6:32 am |
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40 pennies per person in the U.S.A. is not as far fetched as it sounds when you consider the loss/discard rate of this type coin. I have seen pennies from 2005 that were 40 to 50 % covered in verdi gris and that usually spells a short life for that coin.
One other factor that you must consider if you take the cent out of circulation and that is taxes. Every purchase that you make, except for a few, is charged with some percentage of tax. Without the cent, would you round off to the nearest nickel level? How much more would that cost you, your family, the people in the United States, a year in taxes? How many programs (software) would have to be re-written to accomplish that feat in figuring out the correct tax after the sale?
If you have taxes, which you will always have, no matter what, you will have that little copper disc to contend with.
Wavysteps2003
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cladkingMember
Posts: 94
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:57 am |
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| smed wrote: |
| wavysteps2003 wrote: |
If I remember correctly, the Lincoln Cent production was actually ahead of the game in the tune of $10,000,000. 00 a year. That is one of the reasons that those who are against the contuation of this coin are having a hard time getting rid of it.
Wavysteps2003 |
The seignorage on a one cent coin for the year ending September 30th 2004 (fiscal year 2003) was .02 cents.
Five cent coin was 1.22 cents.
10 cent coin -- 7.79.
The quarter? 17.29 cents.
Half dollar/dollar coin.... 35.08 and 68.79 cents respectively.
$10 million is insignificant in these contexts. All my refs are packed so I don't have mintages, but at a seignorage of .02 they'd have to produce half a billion coins to make that 10 million bucks.
Stop producing the cent and dollar note. They are a waste of resources in this day and age. |
These numbers look more ridiculous every time I see them. They expect me to believe that at that time it cost nearly eight cents to make a quarter and less than a cent to make a penny.
Even if these numbers were accurate at some point the fact remains that the cost of zinc is up substantially since that time. This increase is many times .02c per coin.
The cent is irrelevant to tax collection. Rather than have one cent of tax kick in a various levels you can just have five cent of tax kick in at higher levels. The IRS allows tax payers to round off to the dollar already and it doesn't really matter so what problem can arise from rounding to the nickel?
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Tempus fugit.
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 smedSenior Member
Posts: 624
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: Zephyrhills Florida
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 4:53 pm |
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| wavysteps2003 wrote: |
| One other factor that you must consider if you take the cent out of circulation and that is taxes. Every purchase that you make, except for a few, is charged with some percentage of tax. Without the cent, would you round off to the nearest nickel level? How much more would that cost you, your family, the people in the United States, a year in taxes? Wavysteps2003 |
While I was stationed in Yokosuka Japan, the Navy Exchance instituted a policy of no cent coins. If the total sale ended in 1, 2, 6, or 7 the price was rounded down. 3, 4, 8, or 9 got rounded up. Over time the difference is nil.
Nobody has prices that end in 5 or 0.
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wavysteps2003Expert Member
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 5:25 pm |
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For a small concern, like the Navy Exchange, rounding off to the nearest 0 or 5 is inconsequential, plus they do not charge TAX (surcharge, yes). For your plan to work, the split would be broken down to Mils; anything over 500 mils would go to 1000 mils anything below, to 0 Mils. To reach this goal would take countless years of arbitration in the court system between componets of the tax systems, pro and con, to reach an agreement. You know this, I know this, that is how our democracy works and amen to it; we both fought for that institution and were proud to do so.
As long as this nation holds on to a monetary system that is in existance at present, the lowly 1c coin shall remain in circulation, no matter what the cost.
Robert Neff
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cladkingMember
Posts: 94
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 7:27 am |
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| wavysteps2003 wrote: |
For a small concern, like the Navy Exchange, rounding off to the nearest 0 or 5 is inconsequential, plus they do not charge TAX (surcharge, yes). For your plan to work, the split would be broken down to Mils; anything over 500 mils would go to 1000 mils anything below, to 0 Mils. To reach this goal would take countless years of arbitration in the court system between componets of the tax systems, pro and con, to reach an agreement. You know this, I know this, that is how our democracy works and amen to it; we both fought for that institution and were proud to do so.
As long as this nation holds on to a monetary system that is in existance at present, the lowly 1c coin shall remain in circulation, no matter what the cost.
Robert Neff |
I like collecting one cent coins as much as the next guy but the simple fact is that the penny is obsolete and a wasteful drain on our economy. handling costs alone tend to exceed their face value. Now minting costs also exceed their face value. There are other costs associated with having these around also since they litter everything and they are poisonous.
The average American now earns over four million cents per year yet there have been no products available at this price for decades. The least expensive product packaged for consuners is always more than eight cents. There are a few nickel gumball machines around but most are a quarter now days.
The current sales tax system usually works like this; if it's 5% the first 1c tax will kick in at 11c (because you're more than half way to 20c). then each 20c after that will have another ic tax.
11c...1c
31c...2c
41c...3c
61c...4c
81c...5c etc.
Without the penny the 5c would simply kick in at 51c, so it would be;
51c...5c
1.51..10c
2.51..15c etc.
The tax is exactly the same amount but you now pay it in nickels rather than in pennys.
Since nickels actually have some value (not much) you don't have to effectively pay double because you are using a coin that costs more than it's worth.
Perhaps of even more savings is that with the penny gone the coinage system could be brought up to date a little. Remember the half cent was discontinued because it had too little value but in todays money it would be worth more than 4c.
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Tempus fugit.
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smedSenior Member
Posts: 624
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: Zephyrhills Florida
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 9:08 am |
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| wavysteps2003 wrote: |
For a small concern, like the Navy Exchange, rounding off to the nearest 0 or 5 is inconsequential, plus they do not charge TAX (surcharge, yes).
Robert Neff |
Since when does $2,000.000.000 in annual sales make a "small concern"?
NEX does not charge a surcharge. Neither does AAFES, MCX or Coast Guard Exchanges. DECA does. You may wish to re-examine your source of information and decide upon a replacement.
| wavysteps2003 wrote: |
For your plan to work,
Robert Neff |
I did not provide a plan. I gave an example of how eliminating the cent from circulation works, at least in an isolated area.
| wavysteps2003 wrote: |
You know this, I know this,
Robert Neff |
Gee, thanks for telling me what I do and don't know. I don't know how I got along without you before this.
You're of the opinion it would take "countless years of arbitration", and that's fine. I have NO opinion on the matter and take great offense at your attempt to force your opinions on me.
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wavysteps2003Expert Member
Posts: 1344
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 1:31 pm |
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In todays business world $2,000,000,000.00 is a small concern and if you do not call what the NEX, the Commissary, etal., tack on to the final price a surcharge, then what do you call it? Check your next receipt from any of these military instalations.
Wavysteps2003
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wavysteps2003Expert Member
Posts: 1344
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 1:36 pm |
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One other thing, I do not wish to force anything on you and regret that you feel so offended. This will be my last post on this subject and I shall never answer one of your post either; I think it is best that way. Have a nice day!!!!
Robert H. Neff
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 Bob PSite Admin
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Location: Niceville, Florida
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 4:42 pm |
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This forum is for folks to chat, voice their concerns, and/or opinions. Is is really disheartening to see that this subject got personal and out of hand. The information presented here was great and educational up to a point. I am sure that there was no intention of it getting the way it did. Let's try to keep it from going overboard...OK? Personal exchanges can be handled through email or other means.
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smedSenior Member
Posts: 624
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: Zephyrhills Florida
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 6:32 am |
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My apologies for attempting to correct misinformation. I guess I didn't learn anything about the military exchange system during my short 20 year term of active service because some yoyo tells me differently..
I've had it with arrogant xxxxxxxxx who think they know everything. Y'all have a nice life.
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WaterSportNew Member
Posts: 5
Joined: 17 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:38 pm |
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I for one would like to see the cent retired. I think it would be way cool to have it go out like it came in..a 2009 S VDB and give Victor the credit he deserves as well as a neat way to retire my favorite coin.
WS
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cladkingMember
Posts: 94
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:42 pm |
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This is a very timely thread. Copper was up sharply again today. While this doesn't directly impact the cost of making pennies it can strongly impact the number that have to be made and since they are now made at a substantial loss these costs will add up. With copper bumping up against $1.60 per pound and the old copper cents being about 151 to the pound it's likely that the drain from melting and hoarding will increase rapidly.
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Tempus fugit.
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