Discussion on 2006 Dies

[Bob P]

I would like to get some input concerning the condition of the dies being used for the 2006 cents. For those of you who have been fortunate enough to look through many of these coins, your input would be very welcome.
First of all, we all know that this year has so far produced 5 listable, and 6 or 7 minor doubled dies. I have noticed that the ones I have examined seem to have an abnormal amount of die cracks, especially in the head area. I have also searched through a few rolls and found that reverse die cracks seem to be prevalent as well. I have been seeing die cracks and chips on the columns like we used to see on 60s era coinage. The following pics are from a 2006P cent that was probably in early to mid die state. Some of the varieties I have added to the site were early or mid die state and show cracks as well:





There shouldn't be cracks/breaks this massive in this early a die state. Of course, there could be extenuating circumstances on what happened to this one, but I have seen many cracks on even very early die state 2006 cents.

I guess my question is this...for those of you who have looked through thousands of these cents (Murph, BJ, others), have you noticed this in your searches?
Since I don't look through many memorial cents at all, does it appear to you that the dies may have a problem this year compared to other recent years? If this is abnormal, what is your take on what is happening? Metal probelms? Striking problems? hubbing problems?
I just can not recollect seeing the problems we are seeing already this year. INPUTS???

[coop]

I haven't see a lot of them from the Philly mint, but the Denver mint ones seem real good. Lots of detail on the steps that was missing from the 2005. I mentioned on another post that it seem the 2005 dies were too soft and wore easier, but I did note that the 2005 had several die cracks on the columns. It was not unusual to see most if not all die cracked. But on the 2006, I haven't seen as much of that so far. Buyt hay, the year is still young. But what I have seen is a much better inprovement in details on the Denver coins. I'll keep watching and add to this thread if I notice a change.

[Bob P]

Too add to the discussion, here are some pics of the reverses of a few 2006P cents. The fact that there are cracks and chips is really not a biggie. What has got my attention now is the location of these cracks and chips, the direction in which they travel, and just how many there are...especially for earlier die state coins For those of us who have been searching memorial reverses for a while, ususally the cracks form on the devices such as the columns or letters etc. Some of these weirdos just plain show up where I have never seen any cracks before.

[coop]

Lets see if the die cracks correspond to die clashes causing the die cracks/chips/breaks.



Well it looks like some of the left Memorial die cracks/breaks are cause from a die clash as the outline of the obverse hits the reverse in those locations. The UN on UNUM no contact there as all details on the lower bust would be inside the die and the fields are the only areas making contact. But column # 12 on older dies and and newer ones, there is no contact outline to cause the breaks there. There must be a weakness in the dies that cause them to crack/chip/break in that area on LDS/VLDS die states.

[coppercoins]

Clashes are generally never the cause of die cracks and breaks. Furthermore, the fields would be affected more than the higher relief areas, and I see no sign of a clash nor any sign of clash removal on the coins Bob photographed.

The most probable cause of the die cracks and breaks on the new cents is probably an even faster, cheaper way of making dies they're playing around with. It's either that or their annealing process isn't working like it used to.

[murphy]

I don't mean to muddy the water here concerning die clashes but I should mention that the first thing that I notcied in January this year with these 2006P cents were a lot of them had "under-ear" die clashes and or reverse clashes in #9 bay above and below the steps as well as some in bay #3 I think. And lots of die cracks. I save them in a special jar labeled "Crack Heads", lol.
The whole last half of 2005 I saw the same thing, many die clashes and die cracks. The locations of a lot of them were Lincoln's head, date of 2005 and in the memorial upper columns.
Right now I'm seeing much the same only more severe cracking from the edges inward. I've got coins with major cracks through ONE CENT and one comes to mind that looks like the classic Spiked Head Statehood Quarter or Sacagawea Dollar.
You talk about die clashes. Pick up any 2006P cent and look at the bottom of the B and E in LIBERTY. Notice a small indentation in the letter E that gives it a little wiggle on the bottom. Could that be caused by a clash with the first (or last) column on the memorial?
I've looked at a lot of pennies this past year. And if I knew more about die wear, clashes and such as that, I would make more sense, but all I can say is that I think the machinery at the mint wore out early last fall.
I've recently seen some of the best looking cents that I've ever seen. I've also seen some of the worst! So somebody tell ME what's going on at the mint.

[pennyhound]

Think ya hit it on the head there ...

follow the money (funding) plus the fact that more and more is going toward the so called war (ant going there) and the fact that I'm sure all are trying to make more at of less.

I've seen many more die brakes on the Philly verus the Denver, again because of the sear numbers.

Back to looking.

[Bob P]

Thanks for the input folks, but Chuck made a perfectly legitimate point. None of the coins I photographed and added to this thread had die clashes. I think the discussion about clashes has misdirected where I wanted this to go. I don't believe clashes could have been responsible for any of the cracks shown. I believe the answer lies in what a couple of you suggested, That being that the materials being used are substandard. Annealing procedures could also be at fault. I would like to see what happens as the year progresses, especially now that the mint is aware of the numbers of doubled dies found. Should they venture to embark on another investigation like they did after Gabe found his coin, I am sure they will take all of our inputs, and discard them anyway. Keep looking at your coins, and let me know if you see the same thing on other denominations.

[wavysteps2003]

Yes Bob, there is a difinite increase in early to mid die state die cracks for 2006. As pennyhound pointed out, maybe it is the funding. As far as machinery and age, didn't both Mints receive the same equipment at or around the same time for the transition into the single squeeze method?

I can not comment on the 2006-D Lincoln cent, haven't even seen one to make any type of comparision, however, the difference between the 2006 and the 2005 Philidelphia Lincoln cents as far as die cracks go is like night and day. Someone just e-mailed me some photos of a new 2006 wavy step and yes column and bay # 1 have a bunch of die cracks and this looks to be a MDS coin.

As far a reason for this, my guess is as good as anyone elses. Bad metal for the dies, poor machine maintanence, to much pressure on the dies, improper annealing of the dies and the list goes on. I, of course, am happy that this is occurring; the more die cracks in early die states means short die life, which means more dies, which increases the chances of more anolamys or better put, doubled dies. I am all for that.

WAVYSTEPS2003