DDR (Bar/s) 2006 onward

[pennyhound]

Don't know what, Bob and Chuck, are discusing on these ... (weather to list or not list on site)

As far as listing (DDR, Bar Cents) ... those that are listable, (IMO) should be, as per previous years.

Why let other/s get their names out there, any more than possible ... this would promote "coppercoins.com" that much more.

I plan on getting some of mine, ANACS, certified ... and would very much like to give the credit to "coppercoins.com" ... as other/s, I'm sure, would also!

Don't see what the "discussions" are about.

IMO = in my option

I want to use: coppercoins.com ... ID' on my submitions to ANACS ... not other/s, for the same variety!

If they are listable ... thy should be listed. (IMO)

IMO = in my opinion, 'humble' as it be ... lol

[coop]

Pennyhound: I've found several so far and only been at it for a few weeks. Lets see if you can beat the size of the best ones I've found so far?

[Bob P]

Ron,
I am sorry you disagree with Chuck and I discussing these. I have no problem pulling all the other ones off the site if it ends up that we are wrong in calling them doubled dies. That is what we are trying to determine. Among other things, we are attempting to fine tune our criteria. I believe I have mentioned this to you before. We have found out that there are literally hundreds of them out there. We HAVE to establish better criteria. If we don't, we will be inundated with hundreds of these that will end up being too minor to list. If you could sit in our seats for just one day and attempt to attribute some of these, you would realize that it isn't easy.
I certainly understand your passion for wanting to get yours listed. They are very much list-able in my eyes, and chances are, they will be. Remember that you are not the only one out there with some that need to be attributed.
If you have been reading the home page lately, you will have noticed that there are other things going on in both Chuck and my lives. We have been trying to build a new site, and deal with very traumatic personal issues. Any additions I have put on the site, I have done so even though we were not accepting attributions. That was my feeble attempt to try and keep up, so that we don't get blasted when the time comes. If you are unaware of the personal issues then I apologize, but I can assure you that attributing a bar/extra column coin is not on the top of the list.
I feel that your attemt to push the issue here in the forum is unwarranted, and some of your statements were as well. Whether intentional or not, I will not be bullied or pushed into doing something that I do for love of the hobby. I make no money doing this, nor do I have to do this at all. Your rationale for having others get their names out there is hardly threatening to coppercoins. We have established ourselves based on what we have done, and still are doing. If someone wants to list a large bar in their own files, how does that affect us here?
We are very greatful that you want to put coppercoins numbers on your slabs, but I can pretty much assure you that the numbers will not be put on these type of varieties.
So...whether you

[pennyhound]

@ coop

Yes, I have both of those ... lol.

@ Bob,

Wahooo ... easy there,

I have misunderstood what you had written ... in your last.

Plus what I have been reading on the boards here ... adding to what other/s have had to say, as far as the Bar/s being DDR/s or not.

[coppercoins]

I may as well chime in...

I do believe the bars on the columns are doubled dies. I also believe they are extremely minor and hardly warrant any attention at all except to the most specialized of collectors, and even at that, would probably end up at the very low end of the scale for value.

There are literally hundreds of different ones - a certain criteria on what is listable has been discussed, and will probably end up being the rule...this disqualifies a number of the ones that other people list because they are simply too minor and too difficult to attribute with any accuracy, and would take too long to identify with certainty for coins worth a few bucks at most.

I understand the excitement of discovering something new and having it listed with your name in the lights, but be aware that zooming in to 30X to search the coins and reporting every line you see isn't necessarily the way to go about discovering new dies. I recommend 10-15X for searching, and don't bother with them unless there's something outstanding that shows the coin to be a certain doubled die.

Regarding what other people do....they are other people. End of story. This is coppercoins, I am the owner of coppercoins, and I make the decisions as to who does what. Bob has been given a lot of latitude in his determination of what is and what isn't listable, and his word is gold because I completely trust what he does. If he says it isn't listable, then it isn't.

As for "discussions" regading listing these coins, we have talked briefly in the past about what qualifies, and have come up with a general set of rules posted elsewhere in this forum.

I don't know where you may have heard that we will list these coins as long as they are pre-2006, and we will not be listing current or subsequent like issues. That would be a ridiculous move. We will list any qualified doubled die from any year - period. This site has enough space to expand into a hundred doubled dies for every year coins have been made. I'm not worried about the space. What I am worried about is getting the priority issues out on the table and dealing with those first...and the recent very minor doubled die reverses are NOT one of the top-shelf priorities. We have a LOT of other things to complete first...like the some-odd 500 spaces showing no photos of already listed dies...a new version of the website...new features that have to be programmed and tested. If we are mired in modern minor doubled dies, we'll never get finished with anything.

Regarding submitting coins for attribution - that's going to have to wait indefinitely. Bob and I have been going through very tough times lately, and handling other people's coins is the last thing on our minds at present. I will announce when we are ready to accept packages again. It could be within a month, it could be another quarter to six months...we have to sort out our own lives, then start worrying about updating the site and assigning new dies.

rather than shut down the site completely while we sort things out, I have left the site and forum open for people to enjoy while we take the time to go through our personal issues. We don't have time right now to deal with the coins, so sit tight.

[Bob P]

I am sorry also Ron. To me, it seemed as though you were pushing an issue I thought we had come to a conclusion about. As Chuck stated in his reply, we will list the doubled dies. A part of what I was talking about as far as discussions are the 'tilted' columns/bars. I have a somewhat different opinion on some of these than Chuck does. However, as the owner and developer of this site, Chuck will make the final determinaions on these. He has granted me the latitude to make decisions on these, but in this case, I will ask for and abide by his final decision. So...even though the discussions were not concerning your coins, it is a part of this bar thingy we are trying to fine tune.
I also apologize if it looks like I was jumping all over you. After re-reading my own post this morning, I got that impression. I will not make excuses for that, but after losing my father, having surgery, and suffering with physical and emotional pain this week, I just ask for your patience with me during this time.

[Earwig]

Good Luck to you and Chuck. And as far as the double dies they will be there when everyone's problems are resolved. Keep your chin up and things will work out.

Eric

[wavysteps2003]

Just to add my two cents worth; establishing a cut-off point as to what is to be listed and as to what is NOT to be listed is not just done on a whim. Each site / perrson establishes this point to what he or she feels is revelent to the hobby and not out of personal preference. And believe me when I say that each site / person is different. John Wexler is liberal, CONECA is conservative and Chuck's site, coppercoins, seems to have struck a happy medium in between the two, which I agree upon whole heartedly.

When John Wexler first brought up the subject of "bars" it did create a stir; this was something new and it was a doubled die. What few people realized was the vaste quanity of this type doubled die that was being produced by the mint and since I do a lot of searching, I was one of the few that did realize this. I just sent 20 + ROLLS of these "bars" to someone who is cataloging the things (a better man than myself to spend so much time on these dies) and that was collected in just over three months of time. Does that give you any idea of how many are out there!!!!!

When Chuck asked a group of us what was listable in these "bars" I think I was the only one that said do not list them unless they are very special and/or coupled with another form of doubled die; ex. wavy steps, obverse doubling, etc. However, the consensus was set lower than my opinion and a point was established. I support that point as I support all that is done on this site and if there ever comes a time, which I doubt, that I dont, then I will discuss it with Chuck and / or Bob.

One last thing; this site is unique, I need it, we need it and I will do my best to see that it keeps on going the way it does (nimus the hic-cups). You all have a good one and keep on searching.

BJ Neff - WAVYSTEPS2003

[coop]

Organizing your collection can be hard. I use Excel to make an inventory. I have one for RPMs/OM (Still haven't figured out where to put the wide A M's yet) and one for Doubled Dies. I list Date/mint/coppercoins numbers/CONECA numbers and Wexler numbers. I list die state, if I have one or more of each die and locations where I put them so I can find them when I need them. I try to list all DD's that I run across. This can get hard, but it can be accomplished. When I run across an unlisted doubled die, I assign a number to it lets say 2006D-1DO-coop-01, or 2006D-1DR-coop-01. When I use my own numbers when I send coins to Bob and he lists them, all I have to is to find the item/s and label them with the correct new die numbers. After a few years of searching through RPMs of unlisted ones, I sort out the strongest ones and place a number on them like 1960D-1MM-coop-01, then send them to Bob. I always like to have a duplicate so Bob can have one for his collection also. But running into the Wavysteps and Bar reverses I figured out an easy to list them. On wavy steps (which I have the least numbers of) I list from 1-10, 11 and up I use for Bar Cents. So if I find a wavystep 1999-D I would start at 1999D-1DR-coop-01. If it were a bar Cent, I would start lising them at 1999D-1DR-coop-11. This way you automatically know if it is a bar Cent or a Wavystep just by the number. But how do you keep track of bar steps? Well I found a system that works good for them also. I use a description of the strength/height to list them in my inventory. So I check to see if I have listed one with those specifications already. Then I don't have to get the coin and compare. So this is how I list them:

For the first thing I note is which column it is one. Then I list the strength Light, Medium, strong. That doesn't count the height of the bar. I list that seperately as where the bar start and where the bar ends. I've found a couple with double bars and I make that notaion on my inventory. Anything to help make the sorting these double dies easier, I add to the inventory. Takes time, but saves time of going to your collection and finding the different bars and compare. Even mior ones I save as who know what the furure will bring for them. They may end up like nothing or be the hardest to find in BU. So I figure, well I'm only out one Cent and keep them. At least you would have a ball park figure by just comparing your inventory. I tried to abbreviate the letters but sometimes you are trying to figure out what you did for a code. But listing them by strength and height of where it starts and ends helps save a few brain cells or just tossing them into a roll and figuring SOMEDAY I will get to it. But having a system to help may be your solution. Anyone wishing to see how I use my inventory system and have excel, I be glad to share as you may have coins that I don't and vise versa. Maybe we can work out a trade? Contact me if you wish to see my current one.
richard.cooper3@worldnet.att.net