an interesting point to ponder - will they stay red forever?

gription · Advanced Member

one of our regulars told me, after i told him about my lincoln obsession, that he "doesn't buy into the whole red thing, because they have nowhere to go but down" - as in a red copper coin can only get worse - ie: brown, spots, if not black due to elements. it may take 50+ years, but according to him they probably won't stay red forever.

he also pointed out that pcgs will only gaurantee the color of these coins for 3 years... not sure if that's fact or not

air-tite capsules seem to be the best protection. and i've heard that intercept/dansco albums are safe... but are they?

i can't help but think of this particular 1802 large cent i've seen in those auction catalogs.. with original red still intact 204 years later

anyway, how much faith do you have in RED

the bottom line - i keep mine in a dansco.. should i be concerned about my investment?

Bob P · Site Admin

If a coin is properly cared for, there is no reason to believe that it can not stay red. There are many examples in auctions where very old coins have managed to maintain their original luster and color. I am sure there are lots of folks who have rolls of 1950s cents that are still bright red. I have lots of such rolls.
As far as PCGS and their guarantee on coin color, there can always be the possibility that the holder will not maintain its airtight quality, or that the slab will be exposed to the elements just like anything else. I too would limit the guarantee period if I were them. There are too many variables out there to not protect yourself.
With proper care, I certainly wouldn't worry about your coins.

wavysteps2003 · Expert Member

That is one of the peculiarities of coin collecting; the color playing such an important part. My wife and myself have dealt in antiques for a long time and "patina" (the coloring that is given to an object with age) does effect the pricing of an object of antiquity. Wipe off or alter the "patina" and watch the price of the object spiral downward. Objects that should have a "patina" and don't, are seriuosly questioned and as a rule sell for much less, directly opposite of what a coin will do (the redder, the better, at least for copper coins).

I guess what I am saying is that the color of a coin should not be placed as high as it is. Give me a well struck, sharp EDS, without mars, brown coin over a red, LDS, with bag marks, from the same date, any day of the week. I honestly believe that we were to pay less attention to the color of a coin, we would see much less "cleaning" and deceptive practices used to enhance the appearance of coins.

Okay, the soap-box is put up. You all have a good one.

WAVYSTEPS2003

Gabe · Senior Member

For some reason, I have always preferred brown cents over the red cents. The reason why I dont like buying red cents is because of the fear that they will change colors on me, and turn into a brown coin. But like Bob said, if the coins are kept in a good place, with little humidity, there should be no reason for them to turn from red to brown.

coop · Expert Member

I guess the best way to not get burned on Garry's idea is to only pay what a Brown coin would be worth and if it is red it is just that way. No loss if you only pay for what you feel it will be. The seller has the right to say yes or no on a price.

Bob P · Site Admin

Sorry Coop, but I can't subscribe to the idea of only buying a red coin at a browns price, and if it shows up as red...so be it. There is a reason why the grading services distinguish between the two. The Red coin is the condition it left the mint in. Therefore, a red coin is worth more. The longer a coin remains in its red state, the more valuable it should be. The brown normally means the coin has been subjected to the elements to some degree.
If I were a seller, and was trying to sell a red coin, and someone told me they would only buy it at a browns price, I would tend to tell the guy to get lost. As you stated, it is his perogative to sell at whatever price you are willing to pay, but I think your rationale is somewhat misguided. As I stated before, with proper care, there is no reason to believe that a red coin would turn brown anyway, and therefore, that is the price you should pay. This is especially realvent when a much older (Lets say an Indian head cent) coin is still red, and would command a significant premium over a brown cent in the same mint state.

coop · Expert Member

Bob:
I agree with you. just stated a point that if you thought it felt it would turn brown later and was fraid of the loss, make such of an offer. Garry stated that consern, so I was offering a suggestion. Red coins are nice to have. I prefer them also. You just have to be alert to the ones that others clean to make them red. But most of the time a cleaned coin will look more Pink than Red. When you run across one that was cleaned a few years ago, they will be the ones with the false toning. They catch your eye at first, then you realize what happened with them.

GarryN · Expert Member

Who is the Garry being referred to? Anyway, I think that alot of this slabbing of coins is for the short term gratification of today's collectors. Collectors 50 years and 100 years from now will be dealing with some of the errors and changes. Not only instances of red turning to brown, but Modern day proof 70/ ms70 or proof 69/ ms 69 coins silver and clad coins that turn bad with copper spots and such. I wish i could be a fly on the wall when all that happens. Hey, maybe I will! Laughing

murphy · Senior Member

I wouldn't trust Dansco Albums if you want your cents to stay red. I have many that have "turned" since I put them in there, but then I like bullseye toning very much and thats one reason I put my main cent collection in a Dansco 8100 Album.

If you really want your cents to stay red forever, then put them in a mylar flip and heat-seal it. Then stick it in a box that has a chemical de-humidifier packet in it. Then store it away in a very dark place and hope for the best.

Forever is a long time, but if we look for red uncleaned examples at some of the major auction houses of famous collections we might find some that have survived a couple hundred years. They are testimony to what's possible.