speaking of toning

Robert · Senior Member

There's a survey in the June 26 Coin World (page 64) about toning. Thought I'd throw this out:

When asked in 1992, 75% of the survey said they clean their coins/tokens/medals. 60% said they did in 2006.

In 1992, 15% said they toned/repatinated coins/tokens/medals. 4% did in 2006.

In 1992, 19% said they coated (lacquer, anti-corrosion) coins/tokens/medals. 3% did in 2006.

What are the implications of this? Is the population of "cleanable" coins dwindling or is there a desire in the marketplace for un-cleaned coins? Are toned coins becoming less popular?

BTW some interesting insight:

"Is there a type of coin that you would never clean? Why?"

Many said they would like to clean copper but had not found a satisfactory way to do so. In fact, most reported copper looked worse after cleaning.

Speaking for myself, I think cleaning in most circumstances is not adivsable. I try to stay away from things like unc Morgans because many of them have been dipped.

GarryN · Expert Member

Hey Robert... I havent seen the article yet. I think its kind of scary that 60% of the respondents said they clean coins. I hope that was not too many people... I would not clean a coin under any circumstances, particularly copper. Copper does not suffer cleaning very well. But I am sure some out there would say acetone or something else might work. If I had a rare coin that needed to be conservated, I might consider paying someone to do that for me.

I have a scarce Morgan variety in EF to AU that was slabbed by SEGS and the label was signed by Jeff Oxman and that thing was way overdipped. I bought the thing off Vamlink.com sight unseen. It was dipped so much that it is difficult to figure out the real condition of the coin. I was very disappointed that Oxman would sign off on something like that.

penny_wise · Member

You have two issues here. Toning and cleaning.

Toning. Would I pay a premium for a toned coin? No. Would I clean a toned coin? No. Would I keep a coin of mine that naturally toned. Yes. Toning is from a chemical reaction. In other words there is damage to the surface of the coin. I'm not knocking those who seek toned coins. I even admire some of the toned coins. Admiration is one thing, buying one is another. I have not experimented with artificial toning, because I’m not interested in acquiring any toned coins.

Cleaning. I would not clean a valuable coin. I have cleaned non-valuable circulated coins for my own education. I studied them before cleaning and after cleaning in the hopes that I could identify one should I come across one I wanted to purchase on the road.

There is one other instance, recently that I cleaned a type coin and I'll go into detail when I get my adaptors to take pictures with my microscope in a couple of weeks. Suffice it to say that cleaning was the only way to get past the gunk to see what was really going on and WOW. Peaked your interest yet? Laughing

Any of my experimental cleaned coins that I keep are stored and marked as such. Returning the coin to circulation notwithstanding, I’d be upfront with whomever may be interested in one of my coins. Not that they are for sale. I’m currently in accumulation mode.

In closing, to those of you who acquire and admire toned coins, please be sure to understand that this is not a flame against you in any way.

penny_wise · Member

Just thought of something. Look at it this way. Since I'm not buying toned coins, that's one less competitor bidding on your coins. Wink

GarryN · Expert Member

I think Robert is saying that people are artificially toning coins. I would not even know how to do that. Toning is in the eye of the beholder. there is a fine line between nice and ugly toning. the premiums for toned coins is getting out of control, especially in the online auctions where you cant really get a good photo of a toned coin. So they all get described similarly and we know they are anything but similar.

penny_wise · Member

People are artifically toning and improperly cleaning and selling them as "brilliant" and the like. There is an art to the appreciation and detection of a toned coin wheter artifical or natural. There is an entire group for those who collect toned coins, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Again, I'm not in any way putting down those who do. It is my humble opinion that toning, whether artifical or natural is done because of some kind of chemical reaction to the surface. To me, a chemical reaction is a defective surface, and I would pay less, not more for it. Why is it that a "red" commands a higher price than a "brown"? Chemical reaction that changes the surface. Yet, a chemical reaction that changes the surface for a toned coin commands more?

Perhaps I am not sufficiently educated in the area of toned coins, and therefore do not appreciate the value in them. As I stated before, I do admire some toned coins, even the one posted in another post here. And as stated before, appreciation does not translate into me willing to part with my money for one. And because of the fact that I would not be able to tell a difference, in hand or on the internet, that, even more, keeps me away from them.

I understand what the original poster was saying. Good, bad, or indifferenct, I was putting in my two cents - pun intended - Confused

on the matter of cleaned and toned coins. If I have offended anyone, please accept my sincerest of apologies as I can disagree, shake hands, and have a beer with someone. I will admit when I'm wroooooo........ Laughing

GarryN · Expert Member

John, no one offends anyone here. The object here is to be candid and honest. Thats what makes this board great.

penny_wise · Member

Thank you, sir. I knew I signed up with the right board. Being new, I wanted to err on the side of caution. I'm glad to be here and hope I can contribute more as I learn more. Very Happy

eagames · Expert Member

Wow! I'm surprised by the numbers.
Sounds like there's a lot of coin doctors out there that think they're improving their coins. They're making original coins more scarce.

My rule is don't clean anything except something that's already damaged or corroded then there's nothing to loose.

I think real nice toning still can be very nice, I put it in between the RBs and the REDs. Still I would not pay extra for it. You can never make a non full red copper go back to being full red but you can make a full red become toned. It's a one way deal and rare full reds always deserve a premium over all others and get scarcer as time passes.

GarryN · Expert Member

Speaking of toning, has anyone come across these? He has more, but I have only seen toning like this on proofs.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=002&item=120001404854&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=001&item=110001510318&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=001&item=110001510729&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1