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carlbAdvanced Member
Posts: 166
Joined: 02 May 2005
Location: Illinois
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 Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 2:37 pm |
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I'm new to this forum and was wondering how to contact coppercoins (Charles D. Daughtrey) about a question in his book. Here is the question in case your there somewhere.
In looking through your book, the first one, at Lincolns in the early 40's I noticed there is no mention of roving mint marks. I just spent several hours looking through several hundred Lincolns in the 40's and noticed not only are there a variety of S and D mint marks, but the location varies at times dramatically. There is mention of the varieties but nothing about the wandering locations. Some of the S marks are almost into the date and others are far down from there. Some of the D marks are leaning to the left.
Will stuff like this be covered in the next book?
Would it be possible to email me the answer because I'm not sure I'd ever find this thread again.
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just carl
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 coppercoinsSite Admin
Posts: 2809
Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Location: Springfield, Missouri.
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 2:52 pm |
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I responded via email.
If the mintmark is beneath the date, in front of the vest, and within the rim of the coin, it's in its normal position, regardless of where in that area it is. Because any mintmark position within this tolerance is considered "normal" there is no subject to cover in a book regarding this issue.
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C. D. Daughtrey
owner, developer
www.coppercoins.com
cd@coppercoins.com
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carlbAdvanced Member
Posts: 166
Joined: 02 May 2005
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:26 pm |
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| Carlb wrote: |
| I'm not sure I'd ever find this thread again. |
Again I find I can only post by using someones quote. So again I used my own. I'll try this one more time and then send an email. I now have both editions of the book Looking Through Lincoln Cents. Numerous pages describe coins as date-1MM-002 or date-1DO-001. Is this a secret code? I may be getting old but I can not find an explanation of this code in these books. What page is this described? Where can I find an explanation? I go to coin shows about 2 or 3 times a month and no one uses this code. When I ask if anyone knows what it means and show them these in your book so far all say it is your code and no one really knows what it means. Books such as The Red Book do not use this code nor even mention it. Tried to find an explanation is other books like A guide Book of Morgan Silver Dollars and a few others and again, no mention of this code.
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just carl
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 StevenExpert Member
Posts: 1298
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: S/E Missouri
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:01 am |
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The may answer your question about the designations, quoting Chuck.
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One of the initial reasons for inventing a new listing system was to get away from having to be certain my photos matched CONECA's numbers (or anyone else's). If I had an altogether new die numbering system for the varieties reported, I could be absolutely certain those die numbers matched the coins listed.
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You may not find these everywhere you look or ask but they are becoming popular. I list all mine first with Chuck's designations/listing system then attempt to match with others such as coneca, wexler etc.
Steven
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 JackVeteran Member
Posts: 203
Joined: 06 Jul 2003
Location: Apopka, Florida
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:28 am |
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Carl
You have a very good point! If you dont know the terms used it can be hard to get the message.
1MM Means a One Cent coin "Mint Mark"
010 Means that the coin in question is the tenth coin of this "Mint Mark" recognized by this system
1958D 1MM 010 Would be the Number in CopperCoins System for a Denver 1958 one Cent coin that has an RPM (Repunched Mint Mark) that has been reconized as the tenth coin of this MM to be identified
Jack
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JackVeteran Member
Posts: 203
Joined: 06 Jul 2003
Location: Apopka, Florida
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:43 am |
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Carl
The DO Means "Double Obverse"
001 means the first coins reconized by the system
1958D DO 001 would be the First coin reconized by this system that has a Double Obverse
There are a lot of systems in use and CopperCoins is the first (as for as I know) that trys to cross reference the major systems
Hope this is some help
Jack
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 coopExpert Member
Posts: 3402
Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:48 am |
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With the coppercoins system, you can place the numbers of what you have on a spreadsheet, with the numbers in the left column and they can be sorted into proper sequence with denomination/date/mintmark/anomoly. Most other systems will not sort that way.
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Richard S. Cooper
You may be only one person in the world, but you may also be the world to one person.
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carlbAdvanced Member
Posts: 166
Joined: 02 May 2005
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:49 am |
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| Jack wrote: |
Carl
The DO Means "Double Obverse"
001 means the first coins reconized by the system
1958D DO 001 would be the First coin reconized by this system that has a Double Obverse
Jack |
Some help but I just don't get the fact that there are two editions of this book and none tell what the code means. A person must try to figure it our or contact coppercoins to just be able to use his books. Makes no CENTS.
OK so DO means Double Obverse.
MM means Mint Mark
Then it is a guess that DR means Double Reverse?
I have no idea what OM means? Used on 1940S, page 132, edition 1.
Now the number at the end. First coin recognized by this system by WHOM? What good is this number if no one else can use it if it is the first or tenth one recognized by someone else?
Also, some have a P after that number. What is that for?
How are offsets identified? Droped letters? Rotated reverses?
LIke I mentioned I go to lots of coin shows and so far no one knows what that all means and no one I know uses it for coins they have. What good is this system if people have to hunt and search or just guess what something means.
I thought for sure buying the second edition would have straightened that all out. Very dissapointing.
I have 10 complete sets of Lincolns and would have liked to use a decent system to identify each coin but if I don't know what this system is all about, I surely can't use it.
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just carl
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JackVeteran Member
Posts: 203
Joined: 06 Jul 2003
Location: Apopka, Florida
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:30 am |
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Carl
You picked up on the "DR" real good!
Now for the "OM" Means "Over Mint Mark". This is for what ever reason one mintmark was punched (say D) into the die and the person doing the job remembered that he was using the wrong punch (shoud have been S) and without thinking gets the S punch and Punches the S rightover the D then you have a OM.
Some one with a lot more knowledge than I have could do a better job but this about a clear as I can do.
Jack
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JackVeteran Member
Posts: 203
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Location: Apopka, Florida
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:56 am |
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Carl
The question as to other Conditions found on coins is not as easy to answer. Dropped letter coins are "Error coins" as are many other conditions. Each of these dropped letter coins will be one of a kind and will have little if any commen points that would warrent trying to develop a system to help identify all other that are the same due to there being no others.
The rotated reverse is different in that there are more than one RR coins with the same degree of rotation and this may be an area in which some one with a lot of time and resources could develop a system and and help others identify there coins with the assigned nunber.
Jack
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StevenExpert Member
Posts: 1298
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: S/E Missouri
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:08 pm |
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Jack, I think you hit on a point here and not giving yourself enough credit.
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Some one with a lot more knowledge than I have could do a better job but this about a clear as I can do.
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I believe I have made this statement myself but I believe that this is an endeavor of a lot of collectors however they relay there knowledge. Whether it be in a book, web site or as help on a forum it takes a huge effort of all these, at times, to identify a single error/variety or discount the same. Take the 1980 D and S for example. I don't believe that it would be possible to ever have a complete reference in a single place to identify the billions of lincoln cents alone much less all the other coins minted, altered, faked etc. The best IN MY OPINION is the continued cooperation among all collectors in their assistance of one another sharing whatever knowledge they have attained through their books, forums and web sites.
If someone writes that complete reference I want one but I'll probably have to add on a room to the house 
Steven
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coppercoinsSite Admin
Posts: 2809
Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Location: Springfield, Missouri.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:03 pm |
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I'm out of town right now, so I cannot give an exact page reference, but the system is explained in the book - toward the front of the book, look somewhere around page 50.
first is the date and mint of manufacture (not necessarily mintmark since P stands for Philly and they didn't use a mintmark for a number of years).
Second is the denomination in whole cents (1 for a cent, 10 for a dime, 50 for a half dollar, etc.) and then the type of die variety found..
DO - doubled die obverse
DR - doubled die reverse
MM - repunched mintmark (D/D, S/S, etc.)
OM - over mintmark (D/S, S/D, etc.)
RD - repunched date
OD - over date
The last section is the specific die number for the die described, in the order listed by that type. If it is the third doubled die obverse listed for a 1945D cent, it would be 1945D-1DO-003.
There's no secret to it, the system is non proprietary, and sorts more logically than any other system out there. And yes, it is explained in the book. It's at the end of the section just before the chronology starts.
_________________
C. D. Daughtrey
owner, developer
www.coppercoins.com
cd@coppercoins.com
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 Bob PSite Admin
Posts: 3482
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Location: Niceville, Florida
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:03 pm |
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Carl...and others needing assistance on the Die Variety Attribution System, and how we number our varieties:
This information is indeed in BOTH of Chuck's books.
If you have the first edition, this information is provided in detail on pages 38-39. If you have the second edition book, it is on pages 69 and 70.
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JackVeteran Member
Posts: 203
Joined: 06 Jul 2003
Location: Apopka, Florida
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:41 pm |
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Chuck and Bob
Thanks I was in over my head. Its good to see both of you!
Jack
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carlbAdvanced Member
Posts: 166
Joined: 02 May 2005
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:36 am |
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| Bob P wrote: |
Carl...and others needing assistance on the Die Variety Attribution System, and how we number our varieties:
This information is indeed in BOTH of Chuck's books.
If you have the first edition, this information is provided in detail on pages 38-39. If you have the second edition book, it is on pages 69 and 70. |
Got it. I guess I was just looking for a listing sort of like Chuck just posted. You know, just cut and dry. I have both books and went to each one to see if it was there. Not that I didn't believe you but just couldn't believe I missed it all.
Probably should have been right up front for dumies like me. I start looking for things like this and if I can't find it after a while, old age frustrations set in and I justgo on to something else.
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just carl
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