what's up with this the collar or rim

[walkingdude]

I'm like a little kid with the questions here. Hope I'm not driving anyone crazy. I know about the clashed die, I must have posted a different penny for the clashed die part.

[Bob P]

There's nothing really 'wrong' with the rim on your coin. The most likely cause was a slightly misaligned die and a very heavy striking by the hammer die. This is actually pretty common. BTW, It is a very nice clash too

[walkingdude]

Thanks I haven't seen too many with this type collar. I like the clash too.

[coop]

I agree with assesment of your question. Never thought of it that way before. The planchets go through a setup process that add the rim to the planchet. The die only strikes inside the rim area (well usually) and if they are out of alignment, it leaves the ridge next to the rim which is missing on the opposite side of the coin of the coin. This probably happened over and over or at least till the operator adjusted the location of the obverse die. Check to see if the reverse is aligned correctly and the obverse is slightly off. This is called a MAD (Mis-Aligned-Die). If this is a one time happening the reverse will also be out of alignment and it could be a very mild off center which does not happen as often. Interesting that both the MAD and die clash happen on the same coin, but it does happen. Possibly the die went out of alignment after the die clash as it appears on your coin. If you got these from a roll/bag, check for others as if it is a MAD/Die clash they would both be present several times in the same roll/bag. The Die clash would be worth more as a collectable, but the MAD could be mentioned also in an auction. I don't think a big premium would be attached to this, but someone may collect them? Each happens especially the MAD coins, but the strong die clashes are more rare. Nice find and thanks for asking this question as I had never thought of it this way before.

[coppercoins]

The rim is rolled upward in an upset mill by applying rolling pressure to the edge of the blank - this in turn creates a planchet. Rims are not added to planchets.

The die has a recessed rim that does help in facilitating the coin strike. It's the only way you could have a double rim on a misaligned die strike. If the die didn't have a rim, you'd not see the double rim.

Misaligned die strikes VERY rarely have any value above that of a normal coin for the date and mint. They are simply too minor and too common.

[walkingdude]

Thanks, I wasn't sure about the way it was inside the field.

[walkingdude]

I think this will go to Chuck, but I don't know how to go back and reply to a earlier message yet.

Coop,

I went back through the 82 roll and I found about 17 clashed dies, 5 you have to be looking for that error itself so I out them back in the roll, the other 12 are a lot better. Only 3 are prisoner's, 3 have "Y" in the column, 3 have "YT" in the columns and 3 have "YTR" in the columns, the "R" loks like an "I" without the top and bottom bars and all 12 are "MAD" but they aren't in the same postions, varies from top, to side (left right) only on the obv. Also the letters are rotated about -120 ccw. I can't complain one bit on this purchase. I still have to go through the 74d and 71d they had die clashes too.

The 73's had I belive strike through on the cheek, it liked like Statue of Liberties' flame, I'll have to find what roll that was, I bought 33 that time. What I don't understand is is that isn't just one or two but maybe ten give or take. After I find them I'll see if I can photo it or use a pencil to whatever you call it when you use onion paper.

[coop]

Mike : From each roll/bag you get a percentage of each machine that run at that time. When the bin is bull they sebd them off to be bagged and sent on to the distribution points. so each roll/bag have a lot of the same errors and an proportion of each die used at that time. So that is why you only get the same dies coins in each roll/bag. Dies used earlier are retired and future dies have been made yet. So you get a batch from the current dies.

[walkingdude]

I didn't word it right, what I meant was there was 3 different types of clashed dies. I wonder if they changed/polished out the hammer die and not the anvil.
I gotten quite a few errors in the same bag from the Mint (quarters).

[eagames]

Mike,

My 3 thoughts:

It could mean they're all from the same misaligned die pair but because of how the rim was before the strike or the strike itself being different some look different or better. They would probably all be shifted the same direction.
(see if they all have the same markers)

Or it could be 3 different die pairs misaligned maybe because of one operator doing it the same on different die pairs.
(see if they all don't have the same markers)

Or it could be that they were swapping dies around.
(see if the obv or rev markers are always paired the same)

To see you would need to identify the markers on all obverses and all reverses.

I agree with what you said, often in a bag you will see either nothing or a lot of minor stuff. Sort of like they had a crazy day at the mint and you can see it.

[walkingdude]

I haven't been ignoring this reply Ed, I've been looking at other pennies and haven't found all 12 of those pennies yet. From what I seen it looked like different dies, only 3 of each had the same error.

[coop]

On this coin, (which I borrowed to make a point) you can see the edges of the die which didn't set down flatly, which would have made the denticles show all around. But note the edges of the die that would have sat close to the rim? Note the in-dentent. Looks kind of like the first image where the discussion started. You can see the fields edges.

[walkingdude]

Nice coin and a very nice example.

[garylcsr]

is anyone else seeing the faint colums to the left od lincoln? it looks inbedded to me

[coop]

Gary: That is part of the die clash mentioned before. The column fields were tranfered to the fields on the obverse when there was no planchet between the dies.