Minnesota DDRs...How many are there???

Bob P · Site Admin

Hi Folks,
For those of you who have been following the Minnesota State Quarter Doubled Die Reverses (the extra tree variety) that have been getting plenty of publicity recently, How many different varieties do you think there are out there? Based on the info on Ken Potter's site, he has pics of at least 11 different varieties. I had not shown any interest in them until a couple of nights ago. Curiosity got the best of me, and I went searching through the dozen or so Minnesota State Quarters I had here. Out of those 12, I found 4 different extra tree varieties. That's a pretty good ratio on any search. None of these 4 (with the exception of maybe one of them) could be identified as any of those listed on Potter's site. So...the question begs to be asked. 'How many different dies are out there?" I would think that a little extra searching on those quarters you have at home might reveal you have a little bit more than you thought.
Here are the pics of the ones I have. They are minor, but DDR's none-the-less.

wavysteps2003 · Expert Member

Bob -The Minnesota quarter DDRs just may surpass the 2006 Lincoln cent obverse doubled dies. Last count was in the ball park of 25 different dies and if yours, which look like they are all valid DDRs, were added, with the one that I am sending off today, that will put it around 30!!!!!!

Just a suggestion, but I think that you should send your pictures off to Ken Potter to see what he has to say. It seems that he is the go to person on this variety.

As far as the cause of all these DDRs, I think that it is the "BIRD FLU" bug that the Lincoln cent gave to the Minnesota quarters????? What denomination will catch it next Question

WAVYSTEPS2003 aka BJ Neff

Bob P · Site Admin

BJ...Incredible numbers we are talking about here...and I think I may have found a couple more!
I did indeed contact Ken Potter about these and left him a link to the pics. He is interested in one of them, so I sent it off to him today along with one I have questions about. As I stated above..I have pretty much ignored any of these until I heard about your find amongst others. Once I went to Ken's site and saw the pics, I started looking at mine. It's a good thing I did!

eagames · Expert Member

I have seen adds out for them and one said it was ddr-23!

Makes me wonder why on the 06P cents and these quarters what happens at the mint to make such a hoard of varieties all in a short period.

Does anyone know if in 83 or 72 did all the varieties show up in a short timeframe or was it spread over the year?

Russellhome · Veteran Member

wavysteps2003 · Expert Member

Ken - Great report on the satin finished Bison and Ocean in View nickels, I didn't realize that the doubled die numbers were that high for that series.

The theory that the "single squeeze" process would do away with the doubled die is effectively debunked. We have more doubled dies lately than one would ever imagine, however, the major doubled die has still yet to make its appearance (although some of the Minnesota quarters almost get there). It maybe that the Mint, in its infinite wisdom, chooses to ignore these "minor" doubled dies and finds them exceptable as they do not "distract from the coin's overall appearance", which is true. When the 2006 Lincoln cents first made their debut and Murph was finding a different doubled die just about every day, my hopes that a major variety would come out this year; I am still waiting.

A reasonable explanation is that quality control is working at the Mints and that these minor DDO/DDRs are used with the knoweldge that they are present. Ken Potter, in explaining the ways of the U.S. Mint, put it best by saying, "time is money". To not use a die that has a minor DDO/DDR is a waste of both, so we will continue seeing these minor DDO/DDRs and maybe one day, a quality inspector will slip up, then the press operator, then the shift manager and we will see a major doubled die.

In the mean time, while we wait for that big slip up, look for those minor doubled dies. Each new one found gives us a little better understanding of what goes on in the Mint and how this "single squeeze" process is working. There is still a myriad of unanswered questions that the numismatic world needs answers for. Your findings could answer some of them.

WAVYSTEPS2003 aka BJ Neff

Gabe · Senior Member

I didnt know that there had been so many Minnesota doubled dies already discovered. I think Ill buy a couple of rolls at the next coin show, and try out my luck.

I have been wondering for a while when the first doubled dies for the state quarters would be discovered, and it seems that we have already found them.

Im sure that new doubled dies in different state quarters will start popping up once people begin searching for them.

coop · Expert Member

Finally opened a roll of the Minnesota -P Quarters today and found a nice nickname for one of them. It is an error with a die gouge on it over the infamous tree that shows all the (DDO?) anolamies for this State. Also a couple of minor (?) anomalies on a couple of others. Probably get a big price on Ebay for the Minnesota Moon one. Rolling Eyes

Earwig · Veteran Member

In my opinion havin background in the machine and tool buisness there could be many factors in the recent increase in double dies. 1 would be that they r having to squeeze the dies multiple times due to change in material used for making the dies (even though metel type are the same by number ex 1040, M-2, M-4, T-15...) the metel does vary from source to source that is why some companies insist on metel from certain suppliers in the auto tool buisness.The other being time does take its effect on equiptment they just might not have the power to squeeze the dies out in a single squeeze anymore. And thinking that the cost of these presses and the cost of machine type steel goin through the roof (they may be lookin for cheaper sources). Press replacement isnt cheap and with all that going on in the world it just might not be fiscally possible to replace thm at this time. Or they may just be using sub quality material to make the dies. And there is even a chance they are using harder material to increase die life to save money and the presses are just not capable of makin a die in 1 squeeze. But time will tell we will see if the die errors continue into the future

Eric

Eric

Russellhome · Veteran Member

A MN Proof DDR quarter has been found, as reported by John Wexler in the next issue of Coin World (Sept 18, page 4). It is not the strongest DDR, but it does clearly have parts of a tree that should not be there floating out in the field. I checked my proof sets - with no luck. But I think I'll dig out the few rolls of SMS quarters I bought and stuck away. Perhaps the DDRs can be found in Mint Sets as well??

Bob P · Site Admin

Since I started this post, I have added two more different Minnesota doubled dies to my collection. They are pretty minor (kinda look like my BobP-003 above), but they definitely have something there that shouldn't be there. I don't know what Ken's count is now, but with verified varieties on P, D and Proof coins, it is a really nice bonus for us collectors.
I sent a couple of mine to Ken Potter, but they may be too minor to list. The point is that there are many more varieties out there to be found...especially the very minor ones. Keep searching!!

murphy · Senior Member

I have found a total of two Minnesota quarters in circulated rolls. Neither of them exibits doubled tree rear ends. Sad

coop · Expert Member

I checked a roll of D mint that I had here. Nothing. I wonder if the same thing that is creating the bar Cents is doing the same when they make these dies. Something in the process that move the hub or die just a tad and making these varieties. They are selling/posting heavy on Ebay and getting big bucks like the Wisconsin Quarters. So I guess time will tell what is going on at the mints??

Russellhome · Veteran Member

Over the summer, thinking 'long term investment' I purchased a few rolls of 2005 satin finish coins (still in cellophane - cut up mint sets). They were really cheap and I figured I could not go wrong in the long run. For the State quarter 40 pc lots, I paid about $15 to $20. 3 of the rolls were 2005 SMS MN quarters.

I just searched the MN quarters for DDRs. Much to my surprise, I found 9 of DDR #4 in one of the rolls. This is one of the stronger of the MN 'extra tree' varieties.

The last one of this type to sell on ebay sold for over $400 - ungraded and still in the cellophane. Wow. I guess they turned into a pretty good short term investment. If I get half of that, I'll be very happy.

So check your 2005 mint sets. I saw both a P and a D variety known to exist in Mint Sets on K Potters MN DDR page.

Bob P · Site Admin

Great find Ken! A very good investment indeed.

For COOP....I believe there are quite a few of us (and I believe this includes Ken Potter), that do think the same action that is making the extra column Lincolns is responsible for the extra tree variety Minnesota State Quarters.
What this does do is make me very curious as to why this has not shown up on other state quarters before. The very center of the coin is where the doubling is occurring, so I think I just may go back through a few rolls or older state quarters and see if anything is in that area that may not have been seen before.