1972

[walkingdude]

I sent a 1972 penny to the author of Error Trends Coin Magazine He wrote the "Error Coin Encylodiea book", as part of subscribing to the mag. he will examine up to 5 coins a month and try to explain if a coin is an error or not and what might have caused it. The 1972 penny I have (I can't get a close enough photo to show here) has what likes like doubling on "In God We Trust" only, it doesn't look like the picture in Chuck's book, I have a bunch of those master die doubling coins.

His response was "It appears to be slight secondary images due to incorrect hubbing. This may be one of the Wexler's lesser types. I suggest you contact him for this information."

Any help, I don't understand what incorrect hubbing can be. Isn't there a lot that can be considered incorrect hubbing?

I understand the master die doubling part.

[pennyhound]

Sounds like he is saying that yes it is a doubled die and it is of the minor type ... saying that

[Bob P]

Mike...
Doubled dies are caused by the hubbing process. You are correct in assuming that a lot of things can happen because of this process. That is the reason why we have so many classes of doubling. Each one of them is unique and also produces a unique doubled die. All of this information is found in Chucks book, and if you read about each of the classes of doubling, you may be able to analyze a lot of these yourself. To make things even more difficult, there may be multiple classes of doubling on the same coin, and that will lead to still other things that can easily confuse you. (they still do that to me )
As far as your 1972 coin goes, there was prolific hub doubling that year, with everything from a very major doubled die, to the master die doubling that we see on about half of the coins. I believe there were 10 different doubled dies just for the P mint alone. Be aware that master die doubling can look different. The strength of the doubling will vary depending upon hub and die state. Usually, there is a marker of some sort that can be traced back to the bad hub that made the master dies. In the case of the 1972, there is a die gouge on the S of TRUST on MOST of the master doubled die coins.
Pennyhound also made a good point. There are a lot of coins that show some doubling that is just too minor to list. Wexler, CONECA, and COPPERCOINS all have different criteria for determining that, and the only way to know for sure is to send it to an attributer to make that decision.

[walkingdude]

I thought about sending it in, I'm just curious if it is a dd. Now I understand, it probably is. I take it for that year with the major dd out there that the one I have is from a 1-10 a 1. I just needed to know, this way I have something to go by when I look for other dd. Dumb question, what would I do with the address? You wrote send ssae.

[walkingdude]

I read about the different dd types and you got it, cofusing city.

I only wanted to know if it was a dd because that would be cool and it would educate me better to know what to look for. I have a roll with a bunch of the master doulbling that look almost identical to your photos in the book. That helps, since this mechanical doubling is a real pain. If its flat like Chuck's book shows/states thats fine, but when it varies then it gets confusing.

[Bob P]

Mike,
If you want, send it to me and I will have a look at it and let you know what I think. Just send it to my address as listed here:
http://www.coppercoins.com/attribution.php
A SASE will be fine.

[walkingdude]

Thanks, I send it out tommorrow.

[Bob P]

Mike,
I received yor coin today and had a good look at it. I hope you like good news! Your coin does NOT have master die doubling. It is actually the scarce 1972P-1DO-002 (or Coneca 2-O-1). The doubling and markers match perfectly. As stated, this is a tough find..Congrats!!

[lucky2]

Coppercoins and its members is the most reliable place to send your coin. You can always be sure to get them back.~lucky2

[walkingdude]

That's what makes it worth the eyeballs coming out of my head from looking too close. At coins this time.

Thanks for taking the time and for offering to help me out. I needed something to go bye. The books and pictures are great but nothing beats being able to see for real what I am looking for.

[Bob P]

Something else about your coin Mike...
This coin is in NO WAY, a minor doubled die or anything of a 'lesser variety'. This has significant doubling not only on the motto, but LIBERTY and the date as well.

If you take a look at the coin we have pictured on the site of this variety, you will see what I mean.

http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/diestate.php?date=1972&die_id=1972p1do002&die_state=mds

If I may make a suggestion as part of the learning process for you...when you get this coin back, look at it under the scope or loupe. Turn the coin or change your lighting angles and you can see all of the doubling on all of the devices.

The individual(s) who looked at this coin for you before, obviously didn't do that or they would have been able to identify this variety very quickly. We all make mistakes attributing coins occasionally, and I will not bad mouth another attributer. It seems he just didn't take enough time with it, and sometimes that happens when you have a desk full of coins to look at.

Enjoy this really nice coin, and now that you have it, it is a great example of Class 1 Rotated Hub doubling. This should give you a nice start on identifying the sometimes confusing classes of doubled dies.

[walkingdude]

I sure will go over the coin when I get it back, I didn't see what was pictured before but I probably will now.

I don't get the minor part either, this guy has over 40 years of experience, deals in rare eror coins, but like you said he does look through a lot of coins. It is a free service, but it could have been explained better. I almost put it back in the container thinking "oh well".

This coin will be a really good education piece becuase I missed most of the doubling the first time.

I really apreciate you taking the time to go over the penny for me and explaining what I have found.

[Bob P]

No problem Mike...That's why we're here

[rollmeupabe]

After he told you your coin had minor doubling he told me Jessica Simpson was ok looking. I have searched what feels like a million 1972 cents and have never seen anything close to a DDO. Great find.

[coop]

I wonder if that coin shops' owner has a second job? Maybe a referee?

But on taking the images for that coin and most doubled dies I change the direction of the coin usually 90 degrees in a different direction than the normal position. Lets say the top of your coin normally is a 12:00, well mine I rotate the top to the 3:00 or 9:00 position. The change of rotation allows the light to fall across the letters/numbers showing the seperation better this way. Even proof coins it works to rotate the coin, not the ramp to a different rotation to cast the light at a different angle across the details. Works better for me.