Small cud on 1997 Lincoln

[n1tot]

Any of you Lincoln buffs ever come across this, a small cud that runs between the bow tie and the chin. Brian B.

[coppercoins]

No, actually - I've never seen one like that. Interesting coin. It "could" be a doubled die, and it "could" be die abrasion doubling....but a CUD it is not.

A CUD is the result of the edge of a die breaking away with a resulting portion of the coins struck thereafter not receiving an impression of any kind in the area where the break occurred...but a CUD is always near the edge of the design.

What you have is also likely not a die break of any kind because the line bordering it is soft. A die break would leave a rather hard line around the raised area. I don't know if you've had a chance to see a BIE up close, but the idea is the same. They all have rather sharp edges around the blob on the coin from the missing die piece.

[n1tot]

Yes, I have a few bie cents, if it is hub doubled, I'd sure like to know what part of the design it's supposed to be.The abraded die dosen't seem to wash neither, isn't that when they clean the die face with a wire brush, and wouldn't there be fine raised lines from the brush on areas of the coin, none of which I can see anyways. Got me stumped.........

[coppercoins]

First of all I have to say that the photo is a bit small and the relief doesn't jump out at me like it would under a scope, so my opinion of what it is could very well be wrong without actually examining the coin.

Second, abraded die doubling can be caused by polishing, but its more common form is when a die simply wears out and the flow lines start forming shapes around the devices...the 1955P "poor man's" double is a good example of that, as are many other dates. When polishing creates shapes on a coin (other than the tell tale raised thin lines) it would be called "overpolishing" and typically not abraded die doubling.

Third, since I cannot see the details with exact clarity, it appears that the doubling could be the throat doubled to the east and cocked a bit, which would make that a class 4 doubled die if it indeed is one. Notice the doubling on the 1984 doubled ear cent and compare - it is somewhat close to the same type of anomaly...if the mark in the throat is what you are talking about in your post.

It could also be any number of other things, such as a struck through, damaged die, or perhaps something else. But my first statement that it is not a CUD stands. Those only exist on the edge of the design near the rim or on the rim.

[Bob P]

Hey Brian...>What year is this coin? I have an idea what it might be, but in order to do the research, I need to know the year and mint mark if possible.

Bob P

[n1tot]

Hi Bob, it's a 1997p, I've been looking at a lot of them trying to find one with the doubled ear lobe. This is the first one I've come across with that lump near the throat

[coppercoins]

It's rather impossible for at least the first year or two after the single-squeeze method to completely blanket outrule the existence of a doubled die, as there is a single known doubled die for 1997P (of which there are many examples known) as well as a 1998P doubled die reverse.

The 1998P reverse could easily be explained as a pairing of a 1998 obverse die with a reverse die that could have been manufactured a number of years earlier - the same idea I am supporting that caused the "proof type" reverse cents of 1998, 1999, and 2000. There's no date on the reverse dies, so they could be used at any time. By the way, I put the "proof type" in quotations because I do not believe at all that these were proof dies nor were they hubbed with proof hubs. Nothing "proof" about them...they are either dies that were made before 1993 or were made with a hub that was still around from that time period.

[Bob P]

Well, being that it's a 1997, I too am now more convinced it is abraded die doubling. I went through a bunch of 97's a little bit ago, and have found some evidence of that same area being abraded. Nothing I found however is as noticeable or pronounced as yours. I would still hold on to it though. As I continue to go through more coins, I will see if I can come up with anything else more definitive. If it is possible to get a more close-up picture of it, I would love to see it.

Bob P