1957D Question

[Steven]

Found this and compaired to listings here and it appears to be the 1957D 1DO-002 / 1MM-005.

This may sound like a newbie question, Oh yeah I am , but the listing says, for the obverse, CCW pivoted hub doubling. Does pivoted hub doubling include separation lines and notching? IS that maybe what is meant by the class 2 and 4?

This one I found shows light separtation lines on the N and OD, with some fairly strong notching on the E, T and R of the motto.

It also looks to have a notch in the S/W corner of the secondary MM. Maybe too minor to call a D/D/D?

Thanks
Steven

[Bob P]

Steven,
Pivoted Hub Doubling does indeed show separation lines and notching. You definitely have the right variety identified for your coin. The class 2 + 4 means that there are two types of hub doubling on the coin. The class 4 would affect more of the center part of your coin (ERTY of LIBERTY), whereas the class two normally affects the outside devices (the motto). K5 (or the 5 o'clock position) is the point where the hub pivoted on the subsequent hubbing(s).

[Bob P]

I forgot to address the notching on the mintmark. To me, this does not look like an RPM type notch, but looks more like some sort of damage to the punch. I have 11 of this variety, and that 'notch' you see is on all of them, but is also on both the primary and secondary punchings on the better examples I have. They are less visible on the circulated coins. THis would lead me to believe that the notch is from a damaged puch rather than another punching

[Steven]

Thanks for clearing that up for me Bob.
Steven

[coppercoins]

Natural progression question...

If class 2 is distorted hub doubling and class 4 is offset hub doubling, why do we mention pivoting in the doubling? That should be class 5, no?

Now there's one I don't have a good answer for, except to say the class of the die should probably be 4+5, not 2+4. I'm not sure I agree that there is any hub distortion going on.

[Bob P]

Seems like this die is a pain for other too. CONECA lists it as a class 2 + 5. Some of the other 1957D doubled dies are rather weird in the classifications given to them as well.
I assumed that this designation was given by You Mr. Chuck as you have the knowledge and eye for this better than anyone I know. However, I completely agree with the assessment that it should be Class 4 + 5. I would have expected to see a spread toward the center of the die, or toward the rim on the outer devices had this been a class 2. The spread is definitely rotational and not distorted.

[coppercoins]

And it's likely I copied the classification information from CONECA back in the day. Just another case of making sure I do my own work because relying on their information is somewhat shaky at times. It took this thread to bring it out in the open, though. I'll get it changed soon enough.