Asking the experts

MaryJF · Advanced Member

This is a hard one to explain, and even harder for me to take a picture of. Let me see if I can get it right.

On the reverse, I can make out a mirror image of Lincoln's beard, the creases in the neck and the back of the collar. This appears to be UNDER the columns and is broken by the columns. I hope that makes sense to somebody. It's the best way I can explain it. I've tried taking pictures, but it doesn't show up very well (with my limited equipment).

Any suggestions as to what this is and how it happened - and, is it worth saving?

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h253/MaryJF/P1001.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h253/MaryJF/P1007.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h253/MaryJF/P1006.jpg

eagames · Expert Member

I can't see much in the picture but from your description it sounds like a die clash. Thats when the die was damaged by being hit by the other die so the image would be an outline of the obv as if you were looking through the coin.

If you can get better pic somebody can verify that it is or not.

wavysteps2003 · Expert Member

Hi Mary - The pictures that you have posted show a double die clash (two independant die clashes) with one of them being fairly strong. From the looks of the reverse, it appears to be a 1974, but that is just a guess.

Somewhere in this forum, COOP has posted a great article on die clashes that he did and the accompanying pictures will show you exactly what has happened to your coin. If you can not find the post, just PM COOP and he will more than likely be happy to assist you.

WAVYSTEPS2003 aka BJ Neff

Steven · Expert Member

BJ,
I'd like to test myself on your saying '74. Is that due the the size and placement of the FG.
Steven

wavysteps2003 · Expert Member

That is what I am basing my opinion on. Also, the steps do show some definition, unlike the 1980's steps.

BJ

Steven · Expert Member

Well maybe I am beginning to learn and retain a bit, finally. Smile

Steven

wavysteps2003 · Expert Member

Good one Steven, LOL.

BJ

Dick · Expert Member

MaryJF, that is a die clash! I have one identical, and when I found mine, I like you, didn't have a clue! I'm not sure who was first, but several of our members, let me know all about it.
Now the experts are all trying to outdo each other, by telling the date of the clashed coin. The fact is, they are probably right! Thanks to them, the rest of us tend to learn a bit more about our favorite hobby!
Later...I checked mine, and it is 1985-P. The area in the bay(s), to Abe's right, look to be the rim. not clear enough to tell
Dick

MaryJF · Advanced Member

The coin I've pictured is a 92 P. I guess I'm lost as to why it was clashed with a 74, or is it just a guess that this coin IS a 74?. I'm going to look back and see if I can find Coop's post on die clashes, and if I can't find it, I'll just have to ask.

Thanks for all the responses. Little by little I'm learning. Thanks

eagames · Expert Member

Those new pics are better!

Yes it's a die clas. It's reverse is clashed with its own 1992 obv die.

They were just trying to guess the date by looking at the reverse but guesed wrong.

Dick · Expert Member

MaryJF, I don't really know why it would be with a different die. I would expect that the dies clashed, due to the lack of an incoming planchet to strike, and the clash occurred. I was going to ask how, or why that could occur, but then the "grey matter" kicked in, and I realized that there are subtle differences, that are not normally noticed, (unless one is a variety collector), which would allow this to happen. Gentlemen, what is your opinion???
Dick

wavysteps2003 · Expert Member

Hi Mary - I just guessed that it was a 1974 Lincoln cent. Thought that the designer's initals were a bit larger than normal and with the wide AM it put it in that year. Oh well, got to be wrong once this year -----------LOL.

BJ

eagames · Expert Member

Dick,

For most clashes you can assume the clash is from the other die but there are a few known types that are not.
The main coins I know of where the clash is from something other than the same coin is a few well known rare Flying Eagle cents, There's one well known type where the cent is clashed with a 20 cent piece, another with a quarter, another with a half dollar, another with a $10 or $20 gold coin. They're all listed by FS so you can see them in your CPG. I have no idea what the mint was doing by pairing those cent dies with other denomination dies. It's a mystery why they paired the cent die with another denomination other than maybe they were changing a press from one denomination to another and swapped one side then ran the press.

Check this out, it's the one clashed with a half dollar.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1857-Flying-Eagle-Cent-SEGS-XF-40-Seated-Half-Clash_W0QQitemZ280039831670QQihZ018QQcategoryZ11942QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

coppercoins · Site Admin

I almost immediately placed the coin at 1990-1992, but unfortunately the cat was out of the bag before I got to the thread. The 1974 reverse has many different features from that of the early 1990s.