what kind of doubling on a 1831 large cent

[walkingdude]

what kind of doubling on a 1831 large cent is this?

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[coop]

Not real sure on this one. The doubling looks step like as a machine double would have. The doubling is on both edges of T in LIBERTY and the E. Looks like a seperation but can't see the notches on it. Usually when you see the doubling on both upper and lower of a letter/number it is machine doubling. But this one looks different like it could be a triple die. But I would need to see notching before I could tell for sure. It could have been through a rough cleaning scratching out part of the die. But the image looks too close to tell for sure. Try backing up a ways and see what it looks like and check the corners of the letters/numbers for the classic notching. It should have it if it is a double/triple die and not have it if is machine doubling. So I would need more information and another shot or two from different angles to see what it real is for sure. But it does look interesting.

[smed]

Looks like Longacre doubling to me.

[walkingdude]

Okay I'll take a picture later today.

[walkingdude]

Looks like Longacre doubling to me.

What's this? I've never heard that term before.

[lucky2]

The first thing i thought of was longacre Doubleing. This is most common in Indian Cents and was done by Longacre who was the engraver at the time. He did this to enhance the longividy of the die. ~lucky2

[walkingdude]

okay, the guy's name.

[walkingdude]

here's a pic of the whole liberty.

[img][/img]

[Bob P]

I believe it may be Longacre Doubling as well. Here is an article that explains somewhat what Longacre doubling is.

http://www.coinresource.com/articles/mystery_coin.htm

Basically Longacre doubling encompasses the outlines of the devices, but it will not show on the devices itself.

You can do a search on this type of doubling and there are many articles that will explain it and show nice examples of it.

[walkingdude]

Thanks, that explains a lot.

[eagames]

It does look like Longacre doubling except on Liberty it seems not to show on both sides of the letters so it might be something else or a worn die that had it. I think most Lonacre doubling it is on both sides of the letters.

This might be of use:
http://www.coinresource.com/articles/mystery_coin.htm

[coppercoins]

Those are likely recut letters. It doesn't match all the earmarks of Longacre doubling. There is notching, which is never present on Longacre doubling, and it does not show on both sides of the letters, and always does on Longacre doubling.

[walkingdude]

When you say "recut", is that the same as a date being repunched? I don't know how they did the dies back then.

[wavysteps2003]

"The entire “4” is raised on the die. Thus the field around the “4” and the space on the inside of the “4” is recessed into the die."

I just again finished re-reading Frank M. Zapushek's article on Longacre doubling and while most if it made sense, there was one part that has me a bit confused and I am not alone in this state.

If you read the above statement it seems that he is refering to a coin that has an incused date; ex. the $5.00 and $2.50 Indian Head pieces. However, he is talking about a 1854-O, Gobrecht half dollar, which in this case has a raised date on the coin and applying his axiom, should have an incused date on the die.

Is there another explanation or am I missing the point?

WAVYSTEPS2003 aka BJ Neff

[Earwig]

Looks to me by the top of the y and base of the e it could be a triple die like coop said.