Wavysteps?

[Russellhome]

Well, not by the Doubled Die definition -- but the steps on the left side are certainly wavy none the less. Here is a recent CUD purchase I made...



This is one cool error coin. Don't you think? The cud is raised up like a bubble on the obverse, and the reverse shows the standard cud 'sunken void' with no detail.


The guy that sold it to me said he found approx. 60 of these while working in a bank in 1975. Boy, that was a stroke of luck. You can probably ID every one of his discoveries -- he probably left fingerprints on every one of them - and after 30+ years, they are there for good.

I tried to win a 1974 cud on eBay today that was almost as nice. I got outbid (by alot). Rats. Maybe next time.

[Rhubarb]

That is a very nice coin Ken, It look's like there may be a surfer riding the wave on the reverse.(just kidding) That is definately a "error" coin.


Rhubarb

[eagames]

Why don't they just have a weakly struck area on the opposite side, I don't understand why it would be so sunken just from not striking up as the metal flowed into the cud. Anyone know?

Here is a link showing a similar void on a .25

http://koinpro.tripod.com/Articles/WhatIsACud.htm

Here's a 45-d with a smaller die break/cud, on it's reverse and you can barely see a weak area opposing the die break/cud on the obv:

[Russellhome]

I don't know why the reverse is sunken -- but it definitly is. It is not just flat with no detail, it dips lower than the field would otherwise be.

From what I've seen, only the cuds that extend well inside the rim actually form a dip on the opposite side of the cud. The '74 cud I bid on today had a similar depression on the reverse.

[coop]

Because of the cud, the reverse die pushes the planchet upward, but nother there push it back into the lower die. Thus bending the planchet upward and leaving the upper part of the cud untouched. The reverse remains unformed from the strike as there was no resistance to form the planchet into the lower die in that area. That is the way they should look with the die broken that way.

[Dick]

Coop, I thought the reverse die was the anvil die. Am I worng? I have never seen a MAD, on the reverse of a cent.
Dick

[coop]

Dick: You are correct the reverse die is the anvil. On this senerio the hammer (Obverse broken die is pushed over the anvil (reverse) and the unstruck area is noticed on both sides of the coin as no resistance is there to form the planchet. Kind of like a missing upper tooth. No matter how hard to you try the lower tooth can't chew with the upper tooth missing.

The conclussion about the MAD is an interesting one. I've never noticed a missaligned reverse, but that may be true. Maybe the obverse die is the only one adjusted? (See if anyone else has noticed this not to be true?)

[walkingdude]

[coop]

That would be news to me. The setup the with the obv and rev locations would account for the reverse die wearing more as the anvil would make more sense. But the reverse being the hammer is something I've never read before.

[walkingdude]

[Dick]

Coop, and others, There is a case of the off-center occuring with the OBV, being the anvil die:








I don't know if these photos will shao it but the coin is also a bit cup-shaped, due to theoffset on the edge.
photos 1, and 3 show the zinc"edge", with the real edge bent up. photo 4 shows the "inside of the "bend". I also think there cannot be a MAD, and Off-center! Lose the MAD!
Checking the "Plais Book....Could this be a possible "Partial-Collar-Strike"? IE, double struck on center?
A BIT LATER: The lower die, (or anvil die) is FIXED inside the collar. While it raises to eject the coin into the collection chute, it is fixed in the centered position, while the upper, or hammer die is ADJUSTABLE for precise alignment with the lower die. From tThe Plaid Book.
Dick

[Dick]

Gentlemen, the "Plaid Book, page 323, states, in part:
During normal press operation the lower die, usually (but not always) the reverse die, is recessed into the collar to allow the struck coin to have a normally formed rim.
Page 333, paragraph four.
One diagnostic techique which was used to determine which die was the reverse (or lower) die in the press has been the examination of partial collar strikes of the same series. In the partial collar strike, the part of the coin which was inside the collar during the strike will have been closest to the lower die. In that way we can determine which die was the ower one, and which was the hammer, (or upper) die.
Dick

[walkingdude]

[eagames]

Dick,

Are you thinking that they used the obv as the anvil?

The reason I think it's a MAD (with the reverse missaligned) is because they all came from a few rolls and each roll had about 8 like it and all were from the same die pair and had that off center rev and an almost centered but bent obv. About half had mangled plating but all are bent as you said.

I think that means it's a mad since the coins from one die pair in those rolls were the same off centered rev so it must have been set up missaligned.

Here's a few more from the same roll:

[Dick]

Ed, If you check the lettering om "united", you will se it is missing a good part of the edge. On the obv, check "loberty". It has about the same amount of the edge missing, almost to the "L". That is what gave me the impression that it is an off-center, and maybe also a "partial-collar-strike". IE, double struck in collar. That is why the extra photos were included, to show this point. Ypur photos show much better than mine, the bent area. Also, note that the "anvil"die is FIXED in the center of the collar, and it's only movement is to raise the "coin" from the collar, and sject it into the collection chute. Imagine that if both dies were "loose", how much of an alighment scenario they would have! All tose doubles, etc! Also, you might check to see if the "bend" is in the same direction, (towards the reverse). That, (to me) would indicate that the obv die was on the lower side, and CONTRARY to the normal positioning, IE rev=Anvil. Any other comments, and/or enlightenment welcome! I am not an authority!!!
Dick