2006-1DO-015 picture help needed

[MorgansRmine]

Bob, need some help. Still struggling with the 2006-1DO-020 that I found. Here is a picture of the gouge on reverse near the ONE.

To me this looks exactly the same as the last marker picture shown for the 1DO-015. On the picture there is a reference saying Reverse of 001. Is this telling me that the 001 and 015 share the same reverse? Maybe just a misplaced picture. This coin is just sticking in my craw and I can't get it swallowed.

[Bob P]

There were two reverse dies paired with the obverse die. Sometimes, one of the dies wears out or breaks, only the affected die is changed out. I would say you have DDO-015 with the first reverse die. This is the die that was replaced later with the one that shows the majority of the pics on the site. Are you positive you have die 020??

[eagames]

I was looking at both threads and think I know a POSSIBLE answer. LOL... now I know why this was bugging you!!!!!

First look at the photo of the crack in the E on your same coin.(I linked from your other thread)....

It looks like 020. BUT I think it's not 020, I was thinking it was 020 when you posted it before in the other thread but after comparing it again I think it's not 020. It's SO similar to the crack on 020 but it is shifted slightly more to the center of the vertical of the E (but amazingly similar!!!) This is probably a repeating area for cracks which is why it's so similar to the one on 020.


Look at the 020 listing, the crack on the E is not as near the center of the vertical of the E but very similar.

http://coppercoins.com/lincoln/diestate.php?date=2006&die_id=2006p1do020&die_state=mds

So if I'm correct, your coin is 015 with reverse die-1 but a later state than the one in Bobs pics in the listing so it has the gouge plus the crack...
That crack is probably the start of what terminated this rev die-1 then they swapped it out with the reverse die-2.

I hope this made sense.

[MorgansRmine]

Thanks Bob & Ed. The light is getting a little brighter now. It is amazing how simular these die cracks are, yet I agree they are completely different. Now I'm going to put some pictures of markers on the coin that I have that again seem to be present on the 1DO-001. I'm still not sure that the 1DO-015 is not just a later die state than the 1DO-001.
Die scratch off jacket to 2 in date.

Polish lines off left bottom of building.

Small die crack off left planter.

Again these are so simular I can't tell if they are the same of just coincidence. Any thoughts ?

[eagames]

MorgansRmine, I thought I had one like yours in my mystery pile.
When I looked close I see that it's similar but not the same as your 015 or the listed 020 because the crack position is slightly different. It shows that the areas that crack are likely to have similar cracks on different dies.

I posted the other one with a similar marker in a new thread.

[MorgansRmine]

Ok fellas, I'll be the first to admit that I'm a bit dense and stubborn sometimes. I still don't fully understand this coin. I understand the die cracks and chips can be imitated on other dies due to some fault in the die making process. This does not explain why my coin has die scratches that seem to match other DDOs although no obverse die markers are present as shown for the 1DO-015(except for the notching on LIBERTY). Here is a die scratch above UNUM which seems to match the marker shown for 1DO-013.

Not as sharp as marker pictured, but there. Could these abnormalties I'm seeing on this coin be on the hub and being passed on to more than 1 die?

[coop]

The die scratch is in two different areas on the dies in question.

Nice thought though. The reason the die scratches/cracks/chips can be the result of die weakness but you have to factor in clashes and cleanings/polishings trying to cover up the same clashes sometimes over and over. Die flow lines happen to all die that age. Because the process is repeated over and over, the flow lines may also be similar. Thus die cracks/chips die dots are better markers as they may remain through the rest of the dies life. Location of these are key importance. The difference of the die cracks on the E is a classic point. Location of these help to qualify or disqualify a match to a die. Die scratches in the field fade quicker than closer to devices. That is just how it happens. But I do appreciate your thought about it being on the hub, even though it was wrong. But it opens minds to new ideas on other dies.

[eagames]

This thread turned out very good.

It helps show why attributions are tricky.

I've seen so many wheat cents with cracks that surround the shoulder/VDB and until you look close it seems to match a listed marker but when you look close there's something different. Then look at all the wheats that got BIE cracks/chips.

Back to the 015 in question, I'd say that gouge is one of the best markers. It was probably on the die in early state through the end and not likely to see one in the same location on other dies. Cracks and chips and polish lines are more tricky, they are not on all die states then they grow or fade as the die was used.

[MorgansRmine]

Thanks all, put it away as the 1DO-015, you can bet though I'll be checking the 2006s a heck of a lot closer from now on.