1864 RPD/DDO/DDR ???

ken · Senior Member

Got this is a couple days ago and am not sure what I got.Looks like a RPD with possible DDO/DDR.Quite a spread on the date.

Doubling(if that's what it is)appears to be cw on obv and ccw on rev.Going through Rick Snows' book Guide Book of Flying Eagle and Indian Head cents which I recently bought only mentions S-1 & S-7 but no close-up pics,with 7 being rare and referring to thickness on Liberty,that's why I posted the last scan to show the Liberty.This is getting long,so I'll cut it off here.LMK what you think.It shows what I see in my lousy pics I think.

Dick · Expert Member

It looks like the S-4. BUT, the fuzziness of the pictures make it hard to determine if the letters in "liberty" are doubled. It appears to be the case, however.
Dick

eagames · Expert Member

Looks like a no L so that rules out the Ls.

I'm puzzled, UNITED is so strongly doubled but I don't think I heard of one that strong. Makes me wonder what that is.

Could it be double struck, I know it looks like a DDO but I wouldn't rule out being double struck. (just thinking out loud, I'm unsure about this one)

Smile

ken · Senior Member

Hi Ed,Hope you are well Smile

It is the no L coin and it's bronze,not c/n.There is some minor doubling on OF AMERICA,MOSTLY or better seen on the O and disapaits as you go down the other letters on that side of the coin.I was thinking Longacre doubling at 1st,but the more I looked,the more puzzled I got.Lets see what others may think Question

coppercoins · Site Admin

Hmm, well...it looks kinda like a doubled die and kinda like it was double struck. The chances of having a major DDO/DDR on a coin that old without it having been discovered to this point is slim to none, so my inclination takes me to a striking error of some sort.

Dick · Expert Member

It is a NO "L", so that makes it more restricted as to variety. I also thought Longacre doubling, but it is not the same on both sides of the letters, so that was discarded. I can't see the tip hub well enough to make a call. the doubling on America, is very similar to the diaplacement on an'88/887, that i have, and I was okay in it being a DDO. The denticles on the reverse need to be shown, so that it can be determined it they are weak in the one area that is mentioned as a marker, ie k-2-k6, if memory serves me correctly. i have the latest books from Fick Snow, and there are 11 varieties shown. the bad part is that not enough is generally shown, to make a positive call. there is very little clear detail in the photograpgs, as a rule to be precise. Thart is why I made a possible S-4, based on the doubling of liberty. The feathers don't shoe clear enough to tell if doubling is present. Even with Zoom-Text", I was not able to blow it up big enough to tell if there is doubling on the liberty. They look a bit "thick", but it could be my eyes.
Now on the date, it might be a 1e,8e,6e, 4, but there again.....?

wavysteps2003 · Expert Member

I believe that Chuck is right, This may very well be a double struck coin, with a slight shift in between strikes. Snow does not have it listed as a RPD and none of the no "L" 1864 IHPs look like this coin.

BJ Neff

Dick · Expert Member

Like kurt suggested, it should go to Rick snow, fot a "look see'. It could also be a new one. for four dollars, it is definitely worth the trip.

ken · Senior Member

Thank you all for your replies Very Happy

How would I get in touch with Mr. Snow to send it to him for a look see?

eagames · Expert Member

There are many clues.

If it's a DDO that would be about the best DDO IHC so the odds are it would be known. If that was the only clue I'd be thinking a possible DDO but that's not the only clue.

IHC dies were made without dates then the dates were punched so the likelihood of being a super strong DDO and super strong RPD gets slim. Then the rotation/shift on the date seems to match the rotation/shift of the doubling on the rest of the obverse so the odds of that happening is even less.

The reverse also has doubling. It looks like the same rotation/shift again so again the odds of being a DDO-DDR-RPD all with the same shift becomes more slim.

A double struck coin would look this way, it would have the same shift/rotation on the obverse-date-reverse and explain why others like it haven't been found.

So that's the reasoning that makes me think being double struck is most likely.

Still a neat coin, that doubling is nice.

Smile

eagames · Expert Member

ken · Senior Member

Well I just spoke to Mr. Snow and it's double struck in the collar and he hasn't seen one in this date like this.I'll send it off to be slabbed I guess.Thank you again to all of you for your comments and help on this one.

wavysteps2003 · Expert Member

Good going Ken. I meet Rick Snow at the last FUN show and he one of these type persons who is always willing to help. Congratulations on your neat find.

BJ Neff

Dick · Expert Member

Congrats, Ken! I am very happy for you.

ken · Senior Member

Rick said ,look at the denticles on that side but he too was a little puzzeled about being mainly on the left side of the coin,but definitely double struck in collar coin.