2004 Proof Strike Thru?

[murphy]

I have a 2004S proof cent and it's got a "wormy" looking thing on it. I found a quarter with the same kinda thing at the Coneca site. They call it a strike through, so I'm assuming mine is a strike through as well. Am I right? Also, this cent seems kinda high quality, at least to me. Will it detract from the value of this proof or add to it? The first two pics are my cent and the quarter is the example that has the strike through.



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[Gabe]

Very nice strick thru. These types of errors add to the price of proof coins. Im pretty sure that the cent is worth more with the error. I dont know how much is worth now. You might want to contact someone else who has been up-to-date with the error coin market, since I havent.

[coop]

Murphy: With the top image it looks more like a couple of die gouges. It it were a strike through like wire or debris it would have been incuse. But it appears to be raised. Like some sort of die damage. Probably more of them out there if it is die damage.

[murphy]

Thanks Gabe. Maybe someone who knows some more about this possible error including value, will contact me on here or in PM.

Coop, judging from the direction the light's coming from and hitting the rim, wouldn't it be a depression? What do you think, my friend?

[Gabe]

Murphy. It is hard to tell what depressions and raised areas are sometimes in some pictures because of the lighting and quality of pics.

We are here to help each other out, and there is no need to belittle other fellow collectors. I could have easily replied to your original message in a similar matter than how you responded to Coop, but I didnt.

When Coop replied to your original message, I looked back at the coin, and saw what he ment. It sometimes looks like a raised area and sometimes is looks sunk. Depends how you look at the pic.

[murphy]

Gabe, I seriously did not or would I ever meaningly belittle anyone here. I very often put my foot in mouth, which is why I edited my post.

[coop]

Pictures can be deceiving at times. Does the mark come out from the coin, or is it sunk in? A die gouge would leave the opposite impression on the coin. For example: Die scratches stand up from the planchet but a strike through wire or debris would be struck into the planchet. Like a negative of a photograph a die gouge would be struck as a raised area. A strike through debris would be sunk into the planchet. So knowing which way the mark on your coin is would tell you that the coin was one or the other. One has to think how the die works in order to see what the out come would be. While taking images of markers you run across die scratches and sometimes scratches on the surface of the coin. You have to figure out which one is which. Coin gouges from other coins are another one that may make you look at the coin twice. Lamination of the coin or spliting makes pot holes in a coin. Copper flakes make unusal shapes on the surface. You have to think somethings through to get to the answer sometimes and then find out your all wrong sometimes. LOL

[murphy]

Looking at it through a loupe from several directions it looks like a very shallow depression in the coin surface. So to answer your question, the mark would be sunk in. So my guess is that a piece of copper was somehow scraped off a coin and was deposited on the face of mine and when the die came down on the planchet it was pressed into the surface of my coin and when the die was raised, it fell free. Is that how it works?

But one thing puzzles me. I noticed that the die scratches, if that's what ya call them, they go right through the Strike Thru. It would seem like there would be no scratches in the depression where the strike thru occurs, but then it might be an indication of whether the material was soft metal or hard metal. It would have to be a soft metal that would allow the scratches to be pressed through by the die. A hard metal would not flatten out into a shallow area or allow die scratches to be transferred through the material and into the surface of the coin. That sound right to you? I don't know, I'm just sorta making this up as I go along. lol

[coop]

The reason I feel it is raised is because of the die flow lines running across the die gouge. After a few hundred strikes the die flow lines develope on the die making them show up in the fields and across the gouge opening. If that is the case then there should be more of them than just one. Every coin made after the gouge would have it also, if it came from the same die.

[murphy]

Then it would become a Variety?

[rollmeupabe]

Could this image be some kind of dropped letters ? It almost looks like an I and a C. I once came across a 1947 lincoln that had a 47 image in the top of Abe's head. Chuck suggested it was probably metal that accumulated in the die and dropped out just as my coin was being struck, causing the image to be placed on my coin. Just a possibility.

[Robert]

Those may not be flow lines going left-right on the closeup of the cent. The coin still appears to be in its holder... they might be scratches or something on the plastic.

[murphy]

I had to pop the hard plastic container that it came from the mint in. I can't stand shooting a pic through plastic. It's just not right. So, any spots, marks or lint that you see are right there on the coin (or possibly camera/microscope lens). That goes for those scratch looking marks too. Coop calls them die flow lines and that's the name I'll use for them too. The die flow lines definitely are on the whole surface of the coin and flow as you can see right through the worm-like depression or Strike Through. I've been told that they are quite rare. But one fellow at Collectors Universe said today that he has one with the "thread" still attached and still in its plastic container. He said his was made by a cotton type thread and I suppose mine coulda been something like that too, cause I just don't know what made mine. You know, in the mint they put coins in bags and bags have threads. That's what they're made of. So it stands to reason there will be a thread in the works occasionally.